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David, Even if skeptical at the outset, I don't see the harm or the inherent ridiculousness in trying to figure out and question what Michael referred to, as at the very least, "widely held conceptions... - accurate or not, those portrayals are now themselves part of the history of literature." There may be something comic about the 'prize culture' which afflicts not just poetry, but also the novel and the other arts. But even so, there's some merit in looking at how it works. Your own picture of each and every poetry community promoting "flat poetry" and indulging in "rampant brown-nosing", for all its even-handedness, is just as susceptible to a parodic treatment. Best, Jamie ----- Original Message ----- From: David Bircumshaw To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 4:31 PM Subject: Re: Forward for RFL Ah yes, 'to marrow and to marrow and to marrow'. I suppose allk this debate about the meaning of a certain term here is rather like two bald men fighting over the meaning of a comb, to adapt something else well know. Or is the purpose of the said implement, or its significance, or ... Ouch! Ow! Who did that?