Amy, All,
I think you (appropriately) bring it back to
the NEJM Perspectives article that started this thread (cases can and will, and
sometimes should affect decisions).
You also remind us that there is “the
evidence” and how to best use it, and then…how it ends up getting used
in practice. Just because someone uses RCT evidence incorrectly is not reason
to not rely on RCTs for what we know they can tell us. It is further reason
to teach how to practice EBM properly in my view (conscientious, explicit use of
the current best…..).
Best
Rich
From: Evidence based
health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dr. Amy Price
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 8:42
PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBM Anecdote: Today's
NEJM
Dear All,
The question that
comes to my mind very interesting elephant and all is what are the long
term (as in the over two years efficacy results) for this product
in comparison with controls, those with existing CVR within the groups
and mortality rates in general? I would rethink the hypothesis about the
availability heuristic for decision one choices being stronger for case
reports/clinical practice experience as I can’t tell you the number of
medical professionals that go by what their peers think according to the latest
RCT or Meta analysis that they have likely never analysed but that a drug rep
pointed out to them rather than by what is happening in front of them with
their own patients.
Decision making is
important and both system one and system two are critical for efficiency and
excellence. To me the key is to be aware of which system is in use and to know
when to switch system camps as in know when to hold and when to fold. Some of
this thinking is below conscious attention but there are ways to increase
awareness and sharpen these skill .
I find huge
studies are not always good studies and that case reports/series can be very
informative and bring light to nuanced areas a larger study has not controlled
for.
Or in the words of
Best regards,
Amy
Amy Price
Http://empower2go.org
Building Brain Potential
From: Evidence based
health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Richard Saitz
Sent: 10 July 2011 12:59 PM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBM Anecdote: Today's
NEJM
More on the availability heuristic just
published today…
http://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2011/07/07/ebm-2011-100073.extract?papetoc
best,
Rich
Richard Saitz MD, MPH
Professor of Medicine and Epidemiology
Editor, Evidence-Based Medicine, British Medical Journal
Group
Boston University Schools of Medicine and Public Health
From: Evidence based
health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kalliainen, Loree K
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 9:55
AM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBM Anecdote: Today's
NEJM
Yet the isolated experience may
engender a response which is disproportionate to the actual risk (vis a vis the
anxiety about using epinephrine-containing local anesthesia in the fingers
which has been debunked in the hand literature but still believed by non-hand
physicians).
Loree K. Kalliainen, MD, FACS
From: Evidence based health
(EBH) [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bill Cayley, Jr
[[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 7:49
AM
To:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBM Anecdote: Today's
NEJM
I think
the most pithy part of the article is the phrase: "Informed adverse
anecdote transforms scattered data into sound clinical judgment"
To my
way of thinking (OK, so we're starting w/ anecdote already!) evidence is simply
"any observation" - the difference between anecdote and RCT and
meta-analysis is simply the degree to which the evidence is ORGANIZED and
SYSTEMATIZED. Still, it takes real-life, clinical experience to know where to
look and have the perception of nuance to know how to organize the evidence.
Bill
Cayley, Jr, MD MDiv
Work:
Augusta Family Medicine
207 W Lincoln,
Tel: 715.286.2270
Pager: 715.838.7940
Home:
Tel: 715.830.0932
A
cheerful heart is good medicine... (Proverbs 17:22)
From: Rakesh
Biswas <[log in to unmask]>
To:
[log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2011
11:19 PM
Subject: EBM Anecdote: Today's
NEJM
To quote
from: http://healthpolicyandreform.nejm.org/?p=14876&query=TOC
"The key is to use these flashes of physician anguish to illuminate the
Level I evidence and identify the real risk factors for a bad outcome. I
suspect the amygdala did not evolve to store odds ratios and heterogeneity P
scores, but when an adverse event has prompted me to review the literature, I
come away with a clearer understanding. There’s nothing like a baby
free-floating in the abdomen to drive home the lessons from a prospective study
of risk factors for uterine rupture. And that clarity of understanding will
serve the next at-risk patient I encounter."
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