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Hello List, I coudn't agree more. This thread has been an example of what makes this forum really important. A bit of debate and some real common sense advice and ideas. As a mental health nurse i've had to deal with people expressing suicidal thoughts/behaviours frequently. Fortunately this is much less so now that i work within OH. Ultimately it's about trying, as far as you can, to make the situation safe. Even if you're a mental health professional, working within the mental health system, this has it's limits. Suicidal thoughts are quite common in people experiencing depressive illness, but fortunately thr vast majority of people do not act upon them. Also, i thinks it's reasonable to say that there are those who will verbalise these kinds of things in order to manipulate and generate anxiety in others. However, we won't necassarily know this at the time. I agree with Tim. Communicating your concerns to the person or a GP/family member, can often be as much as you can do in terms of discharging your duty of care. Great discussion. Regards Simon Chilton Occupational Mental Health Advisor Mobile: 07853320131 On Fri 17/06/11 8:44 AM , "Darcy, Paul" [log in to unmask] sent: Hi all again, I particularly like Tim’s response. There’s often a hysterical knee jerk reaction the moment someone mentions they have suicidal thoughts and some of the initial responses about calling the police or ambulance service is not often an appropriate initial action. There is a tremendous difference between suicidal ideation and intention and the majority of people with suicidal ideas do not go on to commit suicide and many people who do may not have expressed suicidal ideas to anyone. There’s a useful NICE guideline here and information leaflet here As an OH specialist there’s only so much we can do and normally contacting a GP or advising attendance at A & E is all we can do to discharge our duty of care. We can’t section someone, restrain them or force attendance at A FONT-SIZE: 11pt" color:#1F497D? Calibri?,?sans-serif?;> Something that is important is seeing the employee when they return to work but also if anyone else in the workplace was aware they may also need additional support or education etc. Paul Clinical Nurse Leader Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust 2nd Floor Hammersmith House Hammersmith Hospital Du Cane Road London W12 0HS P: 020 3313 1543 F: 020 3313 3395 E: paul.darcy W: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Tim Ellis 16 June 2011 16:20 [log in to unmask] [OCC-HEALTH] Mental health crises Yep, I have come across this loads in the past and it is difficult to give a one size fits all as it will depend on the facts known in the situation.Have suggested a number of options to managers in the past, depending on the person and situation: -If person engaging in dialogue, encourage A manager/ other keep regular comms. Is there a friend at work that can help? -If not engaging, Contact next of kin via HR to express serious concern (my view is that management would do this if it was an accident at work so why any different with mental health?) -GP contact (if known) to express concern but ultimately contact Police if at any stage comms lost or serious concern for their safety. The police will, if need be, bosh their door down and take them to a place of safety Hope this helps, just my experiences :) Sent from my iPhone Kind regards, Tim Ellis RN, SPCHN (OH), PgDip OH Occupational Health Advisor Occupational Health Department Edward Herbert Building (EHB) Loughborough University Leicestershire LE11 3TU Telephone: 01509 222851 Mobile: 07917 053340 Fax: 01509 222852 On 16 Jun 2011, at 13:57, "Sharon Smith" wrote: If you call the Mental Health Crisis team you just get told to ring the police! [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Patience 16 June 2011 08:01 [OCC-HEALTH] The person speaking to the individual who is contemplating suicide should ask how the person intends to do it. Then one can call the mental health crisis team. It's called mental health first aid and there is training available for managers, oh or hr regards to handling such situations. Patience On 15 Jun 2011, at 22:55, sharon naylor wrote: was thinking something more along the lines of a written action plan/rationale for those actions ------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:26:26 +0100 From: Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] To: We advise managers to call an ambulance in such circumstances as it is a potential emergency. Regards, Carr On Jun 15, 2011 11:21 p.m., "sharon naylor" wrote: > > > > > another musing - have just been contacted by a past colleague wanting advice with a situation they were experiencing(have to stress at this point that my colleague is not OH/clinical). Someone has contacted my colleague by phone and text giving the impression that they are suicidal, it is known that the individual is "depressed" following multiple bereavements. Now I know what I would do in such circumstances but started to ponder about a policy/action plan for those that may well be contacted as a friend/peer/line manager who may not have any codes of practise for guidance. Does any list member have such a thing? > ******************************** > Please remove this footer before replying. > > OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: > > > CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: > ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: ------------------------- This message was scanned by for Virus & SPAM Content and is believed to be clean. 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