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Hi, my understanding is that under DPA there is no requirement to disclose
the fact that I have withheld data. E.g. I might withhold certain
information under S29 that would put a fraud investigation at risk - I don't
need to say that I have done that.

Chris


-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bailey, Trish
Sent: 03 June 2011 15:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] 3rd party data known to SAR applicant

Paul

Aside from the obvious considerations what I was trying to explain
(admittedly not very well) was that which is completely and utterly obvious
that the applicant is aware of personal data - you would be pushed to apply
an exemption.

Yes, as far as I am aware, you do have to confirm, do you hold or don't you
and secondly if you are withholding you need to provide an exemption under
DPA under which you are withholding - in terms of explaining the actual
exemption as a rule under the legislation to the applicant (as in the case
with FOIA) - no I don't think you do.

Happy to be corrected.


Many thanks
Trish
Trish-louise Bailey
Audit & Assurance (Information Governance) (IG covers:  Data Protection &
Privacy, FOI, Information Security, Information Sharing & Confidentiality,
Information & Records Management, Information Quality & Assurance) Telford &
Wrekin Council Civic Offices Coach Central Telford
TF3 4HD
www.telford.gov.uk 

em:   [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
tel:    01952 382537
mb:   07528 969455


-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Ticher
Sent: 03 June 2011 14:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant

Trish,

Have I misunderstood something?  Under FoI you definitely have to specify 
your exemption, but does that extend to Data Protection if you are a public 
authority?  (I work mainly with charities, so this may be an aspect I've not

come across.)

s.7(4) of the DPA says:

Where the Data Controller cannot comply ... without disclosing [third party]

information, he is not obliged to comply ... unless:
    (a) the other individual has consented ... or
    (b) it is reasonable in all the circumstances to comply ... without ... 
consent

s.7(6) sets out how you might decide what is reasonable, but it's not 
phrased in terms of exemptions from disclosing, and there is nothing in 
s.7(1), for example, that says you have to explain whether or why you are 
withholding anything.

In any case I can't see anything that says you have to disclose if it is 
something the Data Subject knows already.  In fact it implies that you 
shouldn't disclose if you have a duty of confidentiality to the third party,

which you would have as an employer towards your employees.

If I'm wrong, I'd be very happy to be put right, but I really do think that 
DPA and FoI are fundamentally different on this point.


Paul Ticher
0116 273 8191
22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bailey, Trish" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:25 AM
Subject: Re: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant


Paul

Im sorry but I would have to disagree with you on this with regard to 
redacting info.  If you were to redact you are required to apply an 
exemption to cover the "withheld info".  My question is how can you possible

apply an exemption to protect information that is already known to an 
applicant - does it not make the exemption null and void?


Many thanks
Trish
Trish-louise Bailey
Audit & Assurance (Information Governance)
(IG covers:  Data Protection & Privacy, FOI, Information Security, 
Information Sharing & Confidentiality, Information & Records Management, 
Information Quality & Assurance)
Telford & Wrekin Council
Civic Offices
Coach Central
Telford
TF3 4HD
www.telford.gov.uk

em: [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
tel: 01952 382537
mb: 07528 969455


-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues 
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Ticher
Sent: 02 June 2011 15:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant

I've noted the comments from others about (a) that the data is not actually
about the Data Subject (plausible argument), and (b) that it's nonsensical
to withhold data the Subject already knows (also plausible).  However, it
occurs to me that (b) may not be nonsensical in every case.

Firstly, I can't see anything which says you *must* disclose data if the
Data Subject already knows it.  That situation obviously makes it more
likely to be disclosable, but doesn't require disclosure, unless I'm missing
something.

Second, I would distinguish between information which is available to the
Data Subject on the internal e-mail system, and data that they can take away
with them on paper and, presumably, show to other people (who may be legally
privileged, but may just be their mates).

Given that your Data Subject knows who the third party is, I would be
inclined to redact the name, at least, because there is no detriment to the
Data Subject in doing so but there is, at least, a warning that you consider
the name of the third party deserving of protection.  They could, of course,
immediately say to their mates "that name they've blanked out is X, Y" but
that would be their choice, not your doing.

So I think there is a good case for redaction.

Paul Ticher
0116 273 8191
22 Stoughton Drive North, Leicester LE5 5UB


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ray Cooke" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 12:03 PM
Subject: 3rd party data known to SAR applicant


> All,
>
> I'd appreciate any thoughts from all you experienced folk out there on
> this
> one.
>
> Scenario is this.  Data subject (staff) makes subject access request.
> Emails to and from the data subject deal with 3rd party disciplinary and
> grievance issues sent to data subject in the course of work.  Some of the
> stuff is sensitive data.  Question is - should the 3rd party data be
> redacted out in responding to the SAR even though the data subject has
> seen
> it and may even still have access to email copies?
>
> I've taken the view that it is not appropriate or reasonable to leave this
> type of 3rd party data unredacted in supplying copies under SAR even
> though
> the data subject will have seen the material and indeed may have retained
> it
> within a work context.
>
> Is this the right approach to take in this particular circumstance?
>
> Grateful for any views on this.
>
> Ray Cooke
>
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