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Lee
That's what Hertfordshire C Council obviously relied on and unfortunately they got out again hence the fine.


Many thanks
Trish
Trish-louise Bailey
Audit & Assurance (Information Governance)
(IG covers:  Data Protection & Privacy, FOI, Information Security, Information Sharing & Confidentiality, Information & Records Management, Information Quality & Assurance)
Telford & Wrekin Council
Civic Offices
Coach Central
Telford
TF3 4HD
www.telford.gov.uk

em:   [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
tel:    01952 382537
mb:   07528 969455


-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of SHQ - Gardiner, Lee
Sent: 16 June 2011 13:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HMRC and personal data

Nope but in theory by using a courier it is more likely to guarantee
delivery (as you can track its progress) than using 1st Class post.  It also
demonstrates that you are taking steps to (again in theory) guarantee
delivery and ensure the security of the information being sent (regardless
of format).

To be honest when public authorities, and especially councils, have spent
000's on GCSX connections so they can work with the DWP (and arguably share
more sensitive info on benefits etc electronically) why would HMRC ask for
electronic information via any other route?

Oh hang on they've already lost 28m records on a couple of CDs so it
couldn't possible happen again could it so what's the harm?

Lee Gardiner
Data Protection & Freedom of Information Officer

Operational Risk Management
Lancashire Fire & Rescue Service
Service Headquarters
Garstang Road
Fulwood
Preston
PR2 3LH

01772 866903
07891 718879

[log in to unmask]



-----Original Message-----
From: Jane Holden [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 16 June 2011 13:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] HMRC and personal data

Hmm seems inconsistent and a bit woolly to me.  Sending it by courier
doesn't stop an unauthorised person opening the envelope does it.  :-)




Jane Holden
Corporate Services Officer
Legal Services
Barrow-in-Furness Borough Council
Town Hall, Duke Street
Barrow-in-Furness
Cumbria  LA14 2LD
Tel:  01229 876452
Fax: 01229 876515





-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lawrence Serewicz
Sent: 16 June 2011 13:19
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] HMRC and personal data

Jane,
Good question. My first guess is that paper cannot be encrypted but a disk
can.  If you fail to encrypt the disk, even though you know the need, then
you can be seen not to have taken reasonable steps.

If there was a way to encrypt paper, as paper, then that would need to be
considered.  Ideally, if the information is sensitive personal (as opposed
to personal information) I would expect a courier service to demonstrate the
reasonable steps to keep information secure.

So far as I can see, the breaches and the fines have been around sensitive
personal information rather than just personal information.

Happy to be corrected.

Best,

Lawrence



-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Holden
Sent: 16 June 2011 13:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] HMRC and personal data

This is probably a really stupid question so forgive me but I'm at a loss to
see what the difference is between sending personal data in paper format via
post and an unencrypted disc?


Jane Holden
Corporate Services Officer
Legal Services
Barrow-in-Furness Borough Council
Town Hall, Duke Street
Barrow-in-Furness
Cumbria  LA14 2LD
Tel:  01229 876452
Fax: 01229 876515





-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bailey, Trish
Sent: 16 June 2011 12:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] HMRC and personal data

Phil

Your obligation is to the organisation you are working for as in the "eyes"
of the law your org is the Data Controller and responsible for the transfer.
I would personally (as far as possible) insist on a form of encryption for
the transfer of data or alternatively (send it via Gov Connect - which would
not require the encryption of the actual information.

I would also be inclined to speak to ICO and explain your situation and ask
what they can advise.  Either way an acceptable method of transfer needs to
be reached (its not that you are not cooperating but your organisation has
obligations under DPA as well as everyone else).

I absolutely astonished that HRMC are operating in this manner - it would
appear lessons have not be learned.

Many thanks
Trish
Trish-louise Bailey
Audit & Assurance (Information Governance) (IG covers:  Data Protection &
Privacy, FOI, Information Security, Information Sharing & Confidentiality,
Information & Records Management, Information Quality & Assurance) Telford &
Wrekin Council Civic Offices Coach Central Telford
TF3 4HD
www.telford.gov.uk

em:   [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
tel:    01952 382537
mb:   07528 969455

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Bradshaw
Sent: 15 June 2011 17:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: HMRC and personal data

I have been consulted by my payroll team.

I am told that HMRC require us to export P11d information (which from a tax
perspective is about mileage claims and includes staff personal data), and
this gets placed on floppy disk (cd's not allowed !)  and sent "via post" to
HMRC. As far as can be discerned there is no encryption being used. The HMRC
website says that the files must not be "compressed" - whatever that means -
and why, since there should never be any issues with lossless compression or
encryption as the "original"
file can be duplicated.

Has anyone come across this. I am amazed, in view of history, that HMRC
sanction this. I am still trying to get chapter & verse from HMRC but they
are rather unresponsive at the moment. I can of course use a traceable
courier service if it would place us in breach of our tax obligations to
delay the info. , but even that places me in breach of our own policy which
is now quite clear : "where possible avoid the use of removable media for
the storage or transfer of personal data and where this is not possible use
an appropriate level of encryption ".

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