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Its not paternalistic to meet the care needs of a patient. This person was
dying, so by your attitude you would say you couldn't heal them so you have
no responsibility to do anything for them. I agree it is not your job to
write the thing down, or to witness it, just as you are not the person to
put the patient on a bed pan, but I am truly shocked that you say "If
anybody's it is the nurse's role to care for the whole patient"

*What the hell do you think a patient is?*
*
*
*Your professional responsibility is to relieve their suffering. You treat
disease. Pain and anguish sometimes need a person to care about a patients
needs, not a slug of opiate. If that means you go and phone the duty
administrator and tell them to get their butt in to the cubicle then that is
your what you do. I was taught that if you can't save the patient your duty
is to let them die with dignity. That is end of life care. May those who
taught you hang their heads in shame at your comment which gets perilously
close to breaching five of the ten components of the Declaration of Geneva.
*
*
*
*Do on to others as you would have done on to yourself, think about how you
would feel in that situation, and just try to find your humanity.*
*
*
*Vic Calland*

On 19 April 2011 00:17, Chris Kirke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I agree with Rowley; the days of paternalistic medicine are gone. If
> anybody's it is the nurse's role to care for the whole patient. We are there
> to heal the sick and arranging wills is not our job.
>
> Chris Kirke
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 9:39 PM, Victor Calland <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> To try to bring a note of maturity back to this discussion....
>>
>> If you believe the patient is not so confused as to be incapable of making
>> a Last Will & Testament (try searching on Google for that) then you phone
>> the duty hospital administrator and tell them to sort it.
>> Technically making a Will is easy. The patient signs the bottom of the
>> document stating what they wish to have done with their Estate in front of
>> two witnesses. It does not need to be on any special form, does not need to
>> be in legal language and the witnesses need only see the signing of the
>> form, and do not need to see its contents. The Will should nominate an
>> Executer or Executers of the Will.
>>
>> I thought this was taught in Medical School, along with such other pearls
>> as taking Dying Declarations, giving the Sacrament of the Sick and the
>> Baptising of Infants.
>>
>> I do hope Emergency Departments haven't forgotten the holistic approach.
>>
>> Vic
>>
>>
>> On 18 April 2011 19:23, Jel Coward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 April 2011 11:16, Alan Montague <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good title!
>>>> I thought the next in line to the throne must have sprained his ankle.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ....and all I could think of was Willies and Erectile Dysfunction!
>>>
>>> Jel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>> --- On *Mon, 18/4/11, Rowley <[log in to unmask]>* wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Rowley <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Re: Wills in the ED
>>>>
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Date: Monday, 18 April, 2011, 15:15
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What is it about this process that requires you or any doctor at all? I
>>>> would have thought a yellow pages thrust into his hands to find a
>>>> solicitor
>>>> is what he needs.
>>>>
>>>> We have this peculiar idea that once someone has crossed our threshold
>>>> we
>>>> have suddenly become responsible for all aspects of their lives, however
>>>> incompetently we may do it. Would you expect a solicitor to try to
>>>> intubate
>>>> someone who has collapsed in his office? No, he'd call for professional
>>>> help. Don't be afraid to do likewise.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Accident and Emergency Academic List
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>]
>>>> On Behalf Of Matthew Dunn
>>>> Sent: 18 April 2011 14:32
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]<http:[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Subject: Wills in the ED
>>>>
>>>> Had a bit of an issue cropped up the other day with a patient coming in,
>>>> dying but lucid and who wanted to draw up a will. Has anyone come across
>>>> this, and what do you do? It's not an easy one to google for (as "will"
>>>> is
>>>> too common a word, but nothing else seems to work). However I can see
>>>> potential issues about someone's capacity to make a new will while in
>>>> the
>>>> ED; and while I can see it from the patient's point of view I don't want
>>>> to
>>>> get our most senior staff (or myself coming in in the early hours) tied
>>>> up
>>>> with assessment and documentation of capacity if it's avoidable. I did
>>>> find
>>>> one article about testamentary capacity pointing out that this is a
>>>> legal
>>>> term that we shouldn't use without being pretty sure of our grounds, and
>>>> that it is very different to capacity to consent to a procedure.
>>>>
>>>> Matt Dunn
>>>>
>>>> Warwick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dr V Calland
>> Director
>> Eventmed UK Ltd
>> 48-49 Broadgate
>> Preston
>> Lancashire
>> PR1 8DU
>> 01772 828114
>> www.eventmed.co.uk
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be
>> privileged.
>> If you are not the intended recipient you should not copy or use any part
>> of it or disclose its contents to any person. If you have received it in
>> error please notify the sender immediately.
>> This e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free but it is
>> the recipient's responsibility to ensure that they are.
>>
>
>


-- 
Dr V Calland
Director
Eventmed UK Ltd
48-49 Broadgate
Preston
Lancashire
PR1 8DU
01772 828114
www.eventmed.co.uk

This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged.
If you are not the intended recipient you should not copy or use any part of
it or disclose its contents to any person. If you have received it in error
please notify the sender immediately.
This e-mail and any attachments are believed to be virus free but it is the
recipient's responsibility to ensure that they are.