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Hi Simon
yes I agree, it has to be framed as part of a research process, not the 
*point* of the research.
Of course, you're right this is a very difficult thing for people new to 
research to grasp.
Even for those of us who have grasped it in the past, and need to 
continually remind ourselves.

btw. I personally didn't benefit from our new funded projects but we 
have some very happy ceramicists!

t.

On 31/03/2011 18:08, Simon Biggs wrote:
> Hi Tom
>
> The Early Career Fellowship route can include practice based researchers who
> do not have a PhD - but they cannot apply for support for their practice.
> They apply for support for their research. The objective is not that they do
> creative practice in a research environment (something ACE could support)
> but that they are mentored as an emerging researcher, if they aren't
> already. In that respect what I wrote is consistent. So, you can get, and
> will continue to get, support for projects that include practice but not
> because they include practice. It might seem a fine hair to split but it is
> the key to a successful bid (and congratulations - they're hard to get!).
>
> Best
>
> Simon
>
>
> On 31/03/2011 17:35, "tom.corby"<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that's strictly right Simon.
>> While the AHRC have pulled the particular funding stream for
>> "practice-based" research, my understanding is that there is still space
>> within research bids to include art practice as a means to an end.
>> We've just received substantial funding for 2 projects that include
>> practice so unless something has changed within the last 2 or 3 weeks
>> AHRC are still committed to supporting art-making as part of a research
>> process.
>> Unless you know otherwise, in which case we might as well pack the whole
>> thing in....
>>
>> bw
>> tom
>>
>>
>> On 31/03/2011 17:14, Simon Biggs wrote:
>>> The AHRC has been clear that they and ACE are working together to better
>>> distinguish their activities and the things they fund. That means ACE funds
>>> art and the AHRC funds research. Both may involve practice and creative
>>> activity but art and research are considered mutually exclusive, in respect
>>> of funding, not complementary. If you are supported by one route do not
>>> expect to be supported through the other.
>>>
>>> However, looking through the list of ACE awards, I note a number of research
>>> based organisations being funded, even some HEI's. This raises the question
>>> whether there is a policy in place or not?
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>> On 31/03/2011 16:09, "[log in to unmask]"<[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simon makes a good point which also reminds me of another observation I made
>>>> gradually yesterday ie that with a couple of notable exceptions there
>>>> appears
>>>> to be a connection between being cut and being research orientated.  Rather
>>>> than viewing collaborations and connections with the higher education sector
>>>> as an advantage and positive factor in terms of assessment it would appear
>>>> (and I say this tentatively as am interested in a broader analysis) that it
>>>> has been disadvantageous. How accurate is this? If it is then it would seem
>>>> to
>>>> run the risk of ACE building its own form of conservatism that can only deal
>>>> with the established avant garde and in failing to grasp why research
>>>> matters
>>>> fails also to allow any sort of space for critical practice to grow...in
>>>> which
>>>> case it makes sense to be outside the regularly funded portfolio or indeed
>>>> the
>>>> system....
>>>>
>>>> When we made a successful case for regular funding in 2004 for
>>>> onedotzero,forma, proboscis, mongrel and arts catalyst we said they needed
>>>> core funding to underpin their research and development periods which would
>>>> then inevitably produce results in future years and also argued that these
>>>> and
>>>> other organisations like them brought new partnerships into the system,
>>>> working nationally and internationally across domains and with very small
>>>> office base.  It seems that recent assessment have demanded quantitative
>>>> outputs over very short time periods with no regard for the overall life
>>>> cycle
>>>> of companies....
>>>>
>>>> with best
>>>> Bronac
>>>>
>>>> Mar 31, 2011 10:48:54 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ===========================================
>>>>
>>>> One example I'd like to put forward is New Media Scotland. They lost their
>>>> core funding as the Scottish Arts Council morphed into Creative Scotland,
>>>> which no longer "funds" the arts but "invests" in creative initiatives and
>>>> start-ups (they hope to get their money back).
>>>>
>>>> NMS still has devolved responsibility for running Alt-W, which is the main
>>>> revenue stream that artists can apply to in Scotland for developing new work
>>>> with digital media. But NMS receives no funding to run itself, pay staff or
>>>> rent. It is expected to be responsible for these devolved funds for no
>>>> reward (Creative Scotland are indeed very clever).
>>>>
>>>> NMS solved the problem by going into partnership with the University of
>>>> Edinburgh, who needed somebody to run their new Inspace art/science
>>>> facility. This provides NMS with a physical home, salary costs and a venue
>>>> for supporting artists developmental work and to present exhibitions,
>>>> performances and other events.
>>>>
>>>> This has worked brilliantly as Edinburgh now hosts one of the most dynamic
>>>> and best resourced venues in the country for new media work across the
>>>> creative arts and at the juncture of art and science research. In this sense
>>>> the loss of State funding has led to a better outcome than otherwise might
>>>> have been the case. Mutual need led to something greater than the
>>>> constituent parts.
>>>>
>>>> Whilst it is bad that organisations and groups south of the border have lost
>>>> funds it might be possible that a few can find a silver lining and develop
>>>> new ways of functioning through various novel partnerships.
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>>
>>>> Simon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31/03/2011 14:42, "honor"  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Like Marc, I have been reeling from the news of yesterday and conferring
>>>>> with
>>>>> colleagues about what has happened, and what we should do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drew Hemment (director, FutureEverything), and I touched base yesterday,
>>>>> and
>>>>> Marc and I touched base this morning, and we feel we need to reach out to
>>>>> all
>>>>> the organisations hit so hard.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems clear that nationally, the media arts / digital arts landscape has
>>>>> been
>>>>> completely ravaged with funding cuts to a wide range of significant
>>>>> organisations who have helped shape and define the field over many the
>>>>> years.
>>>>>
>>>>> onedotzero, folly, Proboscis, Lumen, Mute, Isis, Lovebytes, SCAN,
>>>>> Labculture/PVA, AccessSpace, Vivid, Picture This, and several others have
>>>>> lost
>>>>> funding, as far as we know.  Several other organisations who have been very
>>>>> influential in the digital art space, including our friends, ArtSway in the
>>>>> New
>>>>> Forest, Quay Arts on the Isle of Wight, and Moti Roti in London, have also
>>>>> been
>>>>> cut. In addition, many other organisations who have been doing valuable
>>>>> work
>>>>> -
>>>>> including Animate Projects - were not funded.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to us that that half the digital visual arts organisations active
>>>>> in
>>>>> the UK have been cut.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a massive shock and loss to us all.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is clear there will be more need than ever to form partnerships, and
>>>>> work
>>>>> collaboratively, and there will be huge pressure on those organisations who
>>>>> have emerged in one piece.
>>>>>
>>>>> We am not sure yet how precisely we deal with this, or whether we need to
>>>>> formalise our solidarity, but I think it is so important for us to
>>>>> collectively
>>>>> recognise that media and digital has been a serious loser in the past two
>>>>> days.
>>>>>
>>>>> We believe now is a time to stand up to be counted, and to extend the
>>>>> collaborative ethos and goodwill that already characterises our sector.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do people feel we could usefully swap notes on tangible ways we can better
>>>>> work
>>>>> together?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>>
>>>>> Honor Harger
>>>>> Director, Lighthouse
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Quoting marc garrett :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Sarah&   all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been discussing the subject myself on other lists such as
>>>>>> netbehavour&   to others privately through email...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am extremely angry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yesterday was a significant day. A big shift politically, where the
>>>>>> ideology of an neo-liberalist agenda successfully disarmed half of the
>>>>>> media art orgnizations in the UK. Some excellent groups who were grass
>>>>>> roots, doing amazing stuff were attacked. I can't even bring myself to
>>>>>> mention their names at present, because it feels too raw. Already in the
>>>>>> UK, artist groups have been just about surviving on minimal amounts of
>>>>>> income. Yet due to generous dedication, enthusiasm and imaginative
>>>>>> approaches we have all witnessed an expansive and valuable contribution
>>>>>> to society, as well as towards the arts across the board. Our endeavors
>>>>>> collectively and separately have influenced many of the younger
>>>>>> generation to take on and consider the practice of media art in their
>>>>>> own practice. But also, (of course) it has been watered down by the less
>>>>>> critically engaged sectors of art culture also. This more reflects the
>>>>>> vulnerability of media arts (related) practice, in respect of its
>>>>>> presence and status in the art world and every day culture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There has been, and still are excellent digital and media art
>>>>>> organizations and groups receiving revenue in the UK from Arts Council
>>>>>> funding, actively changing things via their own, critical approaches.
>>>>>> Media art organizations across the board deserve more attention and
>>>>>> appreciation regarding its high output and intelligent production. By
>>>>>> closing over half of them down, cutting off the supply of revenue when
>>>>>> these organizations have been offering so much quality to our culture,
>>>>>> whilst receiving a reasonably modest sum is not only short sighted, but
>>>>>> serves in sending us all a message that there exists an active bias
>>>>>> towards more established and privileged sectors in the art world. Gone
>>>>>> are the days when art was supported because of its challenging contexts,
>>>>>> it is now more about what fits in via a top-down agenda, not the
>>>>>> criticalness of the art or culture itself, as a whole.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As some may have noticed, our funding is at the lower end of the scale,
>>>>>> and obviously fails to reflect sufficiently the amount of hard work we
>>>>>> actually put into getting everything up and going. A seven day a week
>>>>>> job, with thousands of hours missing from our personal lives. We were
>>>>>> lucky to slip through and somehow remain funded. But, to be honest - it
>>>>>> does not feel that positive when looking around at what's left, as half
>>>>>> of our culture has been deleted in one day. I have always valued the
>>>>>> networked elements of having peer practitioners out there to share
>>>>>> ideas, as well as be challenged, informed and re-educated by them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The recent cuts are unethical and declare a shallow contempt towards
>>>>>> others who wish to explore more adventurous solutions creatively.
>>>>>> Already the established art world was content with propping up useless
>>>>>> and culturally vapid artists via unquestioning protocols and lazy
>>>>>> initiatives. It has aways been a difficult terrain to deal with when
>>>>>> having to re-educate those who were not willing to engage with media art
>>>>>> contexts, even though they ran galleries and art magazines and proposed
>>>>>> a (supposed) agenda towards new forms of art practice, hypocritically.
>>>>>> It is not only the Government and its neo-liberal onslaught on anything
>>>>>> of human value and worth, that has helped in hurting our once dynamic
>>>>>> and thriving culture - it was the systemic ignorance of a hermetically
>>>>>> sealed art world also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> marc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> wishing you well.
>>>>>>> Hi all
>>>>>>> Yes a letter to journalists as soon as possible is the way to go, can we
>>>>>> collectively draft it here? With some international input too please from
>>>>>> those of you on this list who have been followers and supporters of new
>>>>>> media
>>>>>> art in England... It would also be good to have some voices from the new
>>>>>> media art orgs that were successful, such as furtherfield and lighthouse
>>>>>> perhaps, who could comment on what the loss of their extended networks
>>>>>> means
>>>>>> for their work? Mike, what does it mean for AND fest that one of the three
>>>>>> orgs behind it was cut; rebecca what does it mean for AV fest that
>>>>>> partners
>>>>>> in the city such as Amino or Isis were not successful?
>>>>>>> Does anyone have any names of journalists we could contact? it is hard
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>> to see it as massive de investment in a little understood or appreciated
>>>>>> artform.
>>>>>>> Hurried thoughts from London... If any non British based readers on this
>>>>>> list have thoughts or need an explanation, do speak up!
>>>>>>> Sarah
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 31 Mar 2011, at 11:08, Gary Thomas  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ditto what Taylor, Mat and Mike said..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And I think Ele's suggestion of a letter to The Guardian would do no
>>>>>>>> harm.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (It was only after the guardian's cutsblog mentioned that our gfta had
>>>>>> been rejected that ace called us to encourage us to resubmit)
>>>>>>>> This isn't just about cuts - it's about a lack of balance in their
>>>>>>>> friggin
>>>>>> portfolio!
>>>>>>>> gt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Ele Carpenter
>>>>>>>>>> Date: 30 March 2011 21:50:33 GMT+01:00
>>>>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] ACE funding
>>>>>>>>>> Reply-To: Ele Carpenter
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here is the list of organisations to be cut on Guardian blog:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/mar/30/arts-council-cuts-list-fu
>>> n
>>>>> ding
>>>>>>>>>> It's such a long list it's hard to comprehend - and as Clive says the
>>>>>>>>>> media arts seem very hard hit within the percentage of visual arts
>>>>>>>>>> cuts. I'm sure there's someone on this list who can download the
>>>>>>>>>> Guardian data and do the maths?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whilst everyone is reeling in shock, could we draft a letter to the
>>>>>>>>>> Guardian? At don't think it's gonna make a difference - but visibility
>>>>>>>>>> seems important. Maybe there'll be a Media Arts Block with the
>>>>>>>>>> http://artsagainstcuts.wordpress.com protests now.... ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any ideas?
>>>>>>>>>> Ele
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 30 March 2011 20:45, Clive Gillman  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't want to start a new line, but it feels like some comment is
>>>>>> needed on
>>>>>>>>>>> the complete wipeout of ACE-funded organisations working with new
>>>>>>>>>>> media
>>>>>>>>>>> announced today - folly, PVA, Mute, Access Space, Lovebytes,
>>>>>>>>>>> Proboscis,
>>>>>>>>>>> Vivid. Been out of the loop in England, but is that it for Arts
>>>>>>>>>>> Council
>>>>>>>>>>> England support for new media ?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Ele Carpenter
>>>>>>>>>> Curator
>>>>>>>>>> Lecturer, MFA Curating, Dept of Art, Goldsmiths College, Uni of
>>>>>>>>>> London.
>>>>>>>>>> m: +44 (0)7989 502 191
>>>>>>>>>> www.elecarpenter.org.uk
>>>>>>>>>> www.eleweekend.blogspot.com
>>>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>>> honor harger
>>>>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> r a d i o q u a l i a:
>>>>> http://www.radioqualia.net
>>>>>
>>>> Simon Biggs
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>>>>
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> http://www.elmcip.net/
>>>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>>>
>>> Simon Biggs
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>>>
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.elmcip.net/
>>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>>>
>
> Simon Biggs
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.littlepig.org.uk/
>
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.elmcip.net/
> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/
>