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Of course, 'urban' HLC (e.g. Black Country, South Yorkshire, Merseyside, Greater Manchester) records quite a lot of information about buildings. Sure, it's as HLC polygons, not monument records, but that means it can record many separate buildings (e.g. blocks of terraced housing) as a single record, not as huge numbers of individual monument records - which is perhaps better for some of the kinds of things we are talking about? Key structures can still be recorded as monuments, with the HLC as backdrop/context (and as designations too, if they are listed). Roger -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Shaw Sent: 04 February 2010 16:12 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings One of my recent additions was a 1970s folly in a back garden which was reported to a Conservation Officer: 'Folly in garden of x xxxxxx Road, xxxxxxxxxx. Constructed c 1970 from a bay window salvaged from Tettenhall Wood House prior to its demolition. The architect for the house was Thomas Rickman (1776-1841), a pioneer of the 19th century gothic revival who coined the terms Early English, Decorated and Perpendicular for the key phases of medieval gothic. Rebuilt by local architect Keith Cattell at his home.' Probably not worthy of local listing but nevertheless of interest and if it is not recorded on the HER likely to be lost. Wouldn't it be nice if EH used some of its money for HER enhancement arising out of HPR for improving historic buildings data on HERs. Mike ________________________________ From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini Sent: 04 February 2010 15:57 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings I agree with Hugh to a certain degree. We have all Listed Buildings as Designations, and some as Monuments. The ones which go in as monuments are ones where we have more information than just the Listing to add in. Eventually we would add them all as Monuments, but not as a high priority at the moment. As there is currently something on the system to flag up a building, the Monument creation is not so pressing. In terms of other historic buildings, we have just had a project to index all buildings looked at by the Yorkshire Vernacular Buildings Study group, and have included all the buildings they looked at (many of which were listed, but not all) and would not select within that group as to what to record. We would also record any other historic or architecturally interesting buildings identified eg a recent addition was a WWI memorial hospital which we had recorded prior to demolition. Finally, none of our Districts as far as we can work out have Local Lists, so we don't have that issue. We have looked at creating one ourselves (to some extent) by trying to identify all old Grade III Listed buildings and adding these into the HER, but this has not been progressed yet for various reasons. If and when the districts did create Local Lists, I think we would add them wholesale into the HER. best wishes Nick Boldrini Historic Environment Record Officer Countryside Service Economic and Rural Services Business and Environmental Services North Yorkshire County Council County Hall Northallerton DL7 8AH Direct Dial (01609) 532331 Nick Boldrini covers archaeological development control work for Selby District ONLY. For all other districts archaeological development control, contact Lucie Hawkins Direct Dial: 01609 532316 [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Conserving North Yorkshire's heritage - encouraging sustainable access www.northyorks.gov.uk/her<http://www.northyorks.gov.uk/her> [cid:image001.jpg@01CAA5C3.3D81E850] >>> "Winfield, Hugh" <[log in to unmask]> 04/02/2010 15:44 >>> Some informative responses, thanks to all for commenting. Just to re-assure people, I consider the Designations module as part of the HER; the only thing I am worried about is the monuments GIS file getting even more cluttered, especially in central Grimsby, when there seems little point adding the site onto the monuments module when it is already entered into the designations module. I do however keep records of demolished listed buildings, demolished locally listed buildings, standing de-listed buildings, and non-designated buildings of interest in the monuments module. Also, when we appoint our new conservation officer, I will try and get them to use HBSMR to keep the buildings sections of the HER more up-to-date than I would be able to on my own. Cheers, Hugh Hugh Winfield Archaeologist Development Management Regeneration Department North East Lincolnshire Council Origin Two, Origin Way Europarc, Grimsby North East Lincolnshire DN37 9TZ Tel: (01472) 32 3586 Fax: (01472) 32 4216 -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Wardle Sent: 04 February 2010 15:24 To: Winfield, Hugh Subject: Re: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings Like Mike, we've put all listed buildings on the HER, both as Monuments and as Designations. I don't believe this will overstretch HBSMR, but then we have a fairly small HER. Moreover, as we are reassessing our local listing (our existing list consists only of those buildings that various Conservation Officers thought 'nice looking') we are putting local listings and potential local listings on. We hope to devise a set of criteria, such as being the work of prominent local architects or the premises of important or innovative local industrialists, for inclusion on a revised set of local listings. Chris Chris Wardle City Archaeologist Planning Policy & Design Leicester City Council Block A New Walk Centre Welford Place Leicester. LE1 6ZR 0116 2527282 [log in to unmask] >>> Mike Shaw <[log in to unmask]> 04/02/2010 14:39 >>> We put all locally listed buildings on - as far as we are concerned they all have an historic interest - which may or may not have been brought out in the Conservation Area Appraisal. At a time when we are trying to widen the scope of HERs and strengthen bonds with our Conservation colleagues it would be unhelpful to try and make a distinction within locally listed buildings. In fact if a Conservation Area Appraisal mentioned a building as of interest I would hope to be able to put it on to the HER even if it wasn't given a designation - though admittedly current resources do not always permit. Even better of course would be some automated way of putting data from a survey such as a Conservation Area Appraisal into the HER. Mike Mike Shaw Black Country Archaeologist ________________________________ From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Winfield, Hugh Sent: 04 February 2010 13:10 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Listed and Locally Listed Buildings Hi All, I was hoping to get an impression of how people integrate Listed and Locally Listed buildings into their HERs. I currently have them both in the designations module of HBSMR; however the listed buildings and the original 1973 local list also have monuments records, even if no further information is available other then the listing entry. My main problem with recording like this is that the new conservation area appraisals being carried out here have added several hundred locally listed buildings, most of which are 19th and 20th century Villas and Terraces with no real historic interest attached to them. I don't want to clog up the monuments module by duplicating the new local lists into it, but if I don't add them it calls into question whether I should keep all of the old lists and national listed building on. My current thinking is to keep records where the building has a historic aspect (Docks custom house, WW1 aircraft hangar etc), but not to have monument records for buildings which have just been listed for their architectural interest (houses, a few offices and shops). I can't justify using a date based cut-off system as unfortunately most of our historically interesting buildings are 19th and 20th century. Anyway, if anyone else who has thought about this could email me with any solutions they came up with, I would be grateful. Thanks, Hugh Hugh Winfield Archaeologist Development Management Regeneration Department North East Lincolnshire Council Origin Two, Origin Way Europarc, Grimsby North East Lincolnshire DN37 9TZ Tel: (01472) 32 3586 Fax: (01472) 32 4216 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------ P Reduce your environmental footprint, please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. The information in this message including any attachments may be confidential or privileged and is for the use of the named recipient only. If you are not the named or intended recipient you may not copy, distribute, or deliver this message to anyone or take any action in reliance on it. 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