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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

In this line, an old but useful title:
Personal author: 	*Barraclough, Geoffrey* 
<http://www.iris.rutgers.edu/uhtbin/cgisirsi/jVliIXmX9G/ALCOHOL/58780489/18/X100/XAUTHOR/Barraclough,+Geoffrey> 

Title: 	Papal provision; aspects of church history, constitutional, 
legal and administrative, in the later middle ages
Publication info: 	Oxford, B. Blackwell, 1935.
Physical descrip: 	187 p.

Tom Izbicki

Christopher Crockett wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> From: Herwig Weigl <[log in to unmask]>
>
>   
>>> but, you are saying that Innocent wasn't responsible for its
>>>       
> implementation?
>
>   
>> yes
>>     
>
>   
>>> i do know that we start seeing Italian canons in the chapter of Chartres in
>>>       
> the course of the 13th c., and always assumed that that was an indication of
> increasing Papal influence yes, in many cases such people got their prebends
> by papal provision --though not quite the same thing as demanding (much less
> actually getting) that a bishop get an official OkeyDoaky from the Papa
> himself .
>
>
>   
>> archbishops needed to receive their pallium from Rome. 
>>     
>
> i wasn't aware of that (though, of course, i should have been).
>
> if Chartres had been an archiepiscopal see, i would have known it.
>
>   
>> Bishops were meant to be canonically elected, and this was sufficient.
>>     
> Innocent III was very clear about this. The pope's involvement was brought
> about by any irregularity (disputed election, translation from one see to
> another, prolongued vacancy ...). 
>
> or simply if circumstances happened to come together in such a fashion as to
> allow the Pope to play a role.
>
> i'm thinking in particular about the circumstances surrounding the
> installation of Bishop (St.) Ivo's successor at Chartres.
>
> Godfrey (of Leves) was an archdeacon in the chapter, had taken a vow to go to
> the Holy Land, and was in Rome, on his way there, when word reached him that
> Ivo had died and he had been elected his successor.
>
> Godfrey asked the Pope to absolve him of his vow, which was, apparently, done,
> and he was (i assume) anointed Bishop of Chartres by the Pope.
>
> almost immediately upon his return to Chartres Godfrey founded a Benedictine
> monastery on his family lands at Leves, just outside of Chartres, calling it
> "St. Mary of Jesaphat"
>
> http://ariadne.org/cc/abbeys/josaphat/josaphat.html
>
> at least, that is the tradition which the monks of Josaphat nurtured about its
> own origins.
>
>   
>> Innocent III was very clear about this as well, but especially in the 14th
>>     
> century the definition of what was irregular was more and more broadened, so
> papal influence increased. 
>
> so, the Vatican "broadens" the rules governing regularity and, thereby, its
> "influence" over... who gets elected?
>
>   
>> The relevant definitions were put down rather in chancery instructions than
>>     
> in decretals.
>
> a distinction which only a canon lawyer can appreciate, i'm afraid.
>
> thanks for the clarification, Herwig.
>
> c
>
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