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Yes. We have a Military Post Office I have it down as a military depot!

 

 

David Evans

Historic Environment Record Officer

Planning and Environment

South Gloucestershire Council

Civic Centre 

High Street

Kingswood

BS15 9TR

Phone: 01454 863649

fax:       01454 865173

________________________________

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 13 January 2010 16:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Narrower Terms: Context

 

This really comes down to whether you see the thesaurus as attempting to
map the world (which is tricky because the real world is full of
uncertainty) or is really a tool for searching. If the latter, the two
strands of children below cairn can be combined because if I am
searching for "cairn" I don't care about the function - I want all
things that are like "cairns".

 

The thesaurus is full of this sort of stuff anyway - most hidden by not
being put in twice. For example, Military Hospital - is only in the
Health and Welfare class, not the Defence class but it could easily be,
as could lots of other defence things - Military post office anyone?

 

Chris Webster

Somerset Historic Environment Record
Taunton Castle (Defence Class) - or is it really just a castellated
Bishop's Palace (Domestic Class)?
Taunton
TA1 4AA

01823 255080

Note that because of a new Somerset County Council website, the online
HER is currently at http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her
<http://webapp1.somerset.gov.uk/her> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of CARLISLE, Philip
Sent: 13 January 2010 15:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Narrower Terms: Context

Hi Sylvina,

Yes sorry, re-reading it, does look as if we're just letting you know
rather than getting involved.

 

With regards to CAIRN we think the sensible option is to remove it as a
broader term of BURIAL CAIRN and CLEARANCE CAIRN and move it to MONUMENT
<BY FORM>.

 

BURIAL CAIRN would then float under FUNERARY SITE and CAIRN (in monument
<by form>) and similarly CLEARANCE CAIRN would just float under AG and
SUB.

 

So CAIRN may have been solved (let us know if you think this solution
works/doesn't work etc) but we still have to look at homographing the
other terms.

 

Any suggestions anyone?

 

Phil

 

 

Phil Carlisle

Data Standards Supervisor

English Heritage

National Monuments Record Centre

Kemble Drive 

Swindon

SN2 2GZ

+44 (0)1793 414824

 

http://thesaurus.english-heritage.org.uk/

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sylvina Tilbury
Sent: 13 January 2010 15:20
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Narrower Terms: Context

 

Hello Phil

 

To be fair, your email wasn't really presented as a possible option but
as the solution, but I'm glad that you're open to discussion on this
one. As an HBSMR user, I for one am all too aware of the background to
this as the Cairn problem has been a real bugbear of mine. 

 

Looking at the Monument <By Form> class, it seems to have been used in a
similar way before so I wouldn't have any objection to that solution.
Surely though you would not then need to break it down into Cairn
(Agricultural) and Cairn (Ritual) etc. , so your broad term could just
be Cairn? There are several other types of cairn in the thesaurus -
presumably these would all be assigned as narrow terms under the
proposed broad term under Monument <By Form>? 

 

Sylvina

Sylvina Tilbury | HER Officer | Planning & Development Service |
Highland Council

Glenurquhart Road, Inverness, IV3 5NX | T: 01463 702503 | F: 01463
702298

Highland HER: http://her.highland.gov.uk <http://her.highland.gov.uk/>  

-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CARLISLE, Philip
Sent: 13 January 2010 14:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Narrower Terms: Context

 

Dear all,

I though it might be useful to provide some context behind the proposed
changes to the terms I posted this morning.

 

The Data Standards Unit is undertaking this work at the behest of a
large proportion of the HER community. Crispin Flower on behalf of the
HBMSMR users group sent me the following back in September.

 

 

Hi Phil

The problem with the thesaurus narrow terms keeps cropping up, with
HBSMR users getting unexpected/incorrect results to searches. For
example, we have recently had Staffordshire having trouble searching for
BRIDGE and its narrow terms, because the various instances of BRIDGE
have different narrow terms. They are using the latest v10 thesaurus
release.

When we last discussed this in April 2008, we provided a list of the
worst offending terms (see below), and you were going to see if and when
fixing this could be scheduled into the DSU work programme - has there
been any progress here?

If this is not going to happen within a useful timescale, we'll together
need to look into other ways of resolving this, i.e. to make changes in
HBSMR to how the searching works (which could be resourced either by the
users' "Development Reserve" or by EH).

 

Best wishes

Crispin

 

Unlike the EH software which returns all instances of a term and its
narrow terms (so a search on CAIRN would also bring back CLEARANCE CAIRN
as well as BURIAL CAIRN) the exeGesIS software searches on the instance
(ie. position in the hierarchy) and its narrower terms which may differ,
thus returning "unexpected/incorrect" results.

 

To solve this problem Crispin supplied us with a copy of a spreadsheet
with the 'problematic' terms in and for the most part these were easy
enough to fix as there was no problem with the hierarchical positions.
Only the 12 terms which I sent earlier need further work.

 

What the solutions for those terms are is for us as a community to
decide. All we (DSU) are trying to do is to provide a quick fix for a
large proportion of the community.


What I sent out this morning was an EXAMPLE of one approach and, as I
replied to Andrew Nicholson off list, we may end up having a catch all
term like CAIRN (MONUMENT) under MONUMENT <BY FORM> to solve the
problems where the interpretation is uncertain (and no, Chris building
uncertainty into the thesaurus is not an option!).

 

So by all means discuss the problem terms but don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

Phil

 

 

 

Phil Carlisle

Data Standards Supervisor

English Heritage

National Monuments Record Centre

Kemble Drive 

Swindon

SN2 2GZ

+44 (0)1793 414824

 

http://thesaurus.english-heritage.org.uk/

 

The information contained within this e-mail is confidential and may be
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Any views and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author
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Heritage will not take any responsibility for the views of the author.

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