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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I work on miracle stories in Spain and offerings of candles and, particularly, of wax are extremely common. I should probably note that none of the saints I have studied in depth were canonized in the Middle Ages (though one was the Virgin). The offerings in general were highly valued and I have several regulations revolving around who gets to collect the offerings left at altars and what they can do with them; this seems to be a recurring problem in Vic, for example. Additionally, I have wondered and Vauchez and Thompson donšt really address this about the physical malleability of the wax. As many of you know, wax offerings (and other votive offerings) were often made of the diseased/injured part either before it was healed (as in the problem was portrayed in the wax) or afterwards (a perfect arm, for example). I have seen prayers and miracle descriptions which seem to suggest that people are seeking, with the wax, to mirror what they want God and the saints to do reshape their bodies. I wonder if, as in miracles from the 11th and early 12th century (Compostela) what we have is related to the physical actions taken by the saints to work miracles. James of Compostela in one of his miracles, for example, appears and physically sails a ship in a storm; the account includes wonderfully vivid details. Finucane in particular talks about the importance of candles measured to the sick as an offering, but, again, does not address malleability or even the physicality of wax. Has anyone seen anything similar or secondary work related to this topic? Michelle Garceau On 10/19/09 10:09 PM, "Andrew Larsen" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > Cecelia, > The article in question is "Patronage of Saints and Civic Religion in the > Italy of the Communes" in The Laity in the Middle Ages (Notre Dame, 1993) (I > think it might be a reprinted article, but I'm not sure). > At Orvieto, in 1350, the city sent a 50 lb candle to the cathedral for the > Virgin and a second smaller one (weight unspecified in the article) to the > cathedral for a local saint. The Dominican house received 2 20 lb candles, > one for Dominic and one for a local saint. The Franciscans received a similar > pair of candles, and the Augustinians 1 candle. Statutes required that the > candles remain in place for 1 full year, when they would be replaced. > In 1314, Orvieto issued a statute specifying that its candles "should serve > exclusively to illuminate the body of Christ and should remain lit until the > end of the Elevation." If a candle was not kept for a whole year, it was not > to be replaced. A notary was required to visit the church every three months > to ensure the candle was in the proper location. > In 1315, Poggibonsi declared a candle-lit procession for a local saint. > Beginning in 1321, the town annually calculated the number of candles to be > used, which varied between 200 and 500. They were donated to the local > Franciscan house. An equal number of merchants were required to donate candles > and participate in the procession. The number of candles dropped from 500 in > 1348 to 350 in 1350. > Also in Poggibonsi, on the feast of a local saint, the guilds conducted a > torch-lit procession to the saint's church and then donated the torches, on > penalty of a fine. The next day, the town presented wax to the same church. > In 1451, Amandola decreed an annual donation of a 50-solidi candle. After > 1471, the value of the candle went up to 10 pounds. > In 1391, Spoleto decreed a donation of 30 lbs of wax every year to the > Dominican church, although in 1397 this was reduced to several (4, I > think)candles of 3 lbs each. Two more candles of equal weight were given to > another church. The remaining 12 lbs of wax was given to clergy who > participated. > Most of the saints involved were uncanonized saints, so the towns in question > were giving civic approval to these saints and thereby skirting church control > of canonization. > So to answer your questions, it seems that the candles were expected to be > used, although the requirement to check up suggests that there was a worry > they wouldn't be used. At Orvieto, the town tried to ensure exactly when the > candles were used during the service, and exactly where they would be shedding > their light. The economic value of the candles was clearly an issue in some > cases, since at Amandola they increased the cost, while at Spoleto, because of > quarrels between churches, they decided to rebalance how the candles/wax was > being given away. The fact that Poggibonsi fined those who failed to donate > their candles suggests that some people resisted the required donation. So > although the value of the candles was symbolic and practical (Orvieto did want > them used for lighting) to the town government, they were aware of the > economic aspects of the issue and tried to control them. > Hope this helps. > > Andrew E. Larsen > > On Oct 19, 2009, at 7:49 PM, John Dillon wrote: > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> Dear Cecilia, >> >> It's a little hard to get answers to these question when we don't have the >> title or venue of Vauchez's article. But if you take the time to look at the >> pertinent pages in Augustine Thompson's book via the link I provided in my >> previous post, you will find answers to some of your questions, albeit not in >> enough quantity or detail to permit useful generalizations. >> >> Best again, >> John Dillon >> >> >> On Monday, October 19, 2009 7:28 pm, Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote: >> >> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >>> >>> OK, Good. But what was the value of the candle? Did the church use these >>> candles? Were they used to light the church? Was the wax sold for >>> income? It >>> clearly had alot of symbolic capital. What I'm not getting is the ultimate >>> value of the votive object. Was it practical? Economic? purely symbolic? >>> Were these candle used? lighted? >>> >>> cecilia >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Larsen <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >>>> >>>> Andre Vauchez has an interesting article about how Italian cities managed >>>> saints cults partly through donations of candles. In at least one city, >>>> they sent an official around to check if the church in question was >>>> >>> keeping >>> >>>> the city's (massive) candle on its altar all year. Those that >>>> >>> didn't were >>> >>>> penalized. The gift of the candle was a sign of official approval >>>> >>> by the >>> >>>> city. >>>> >>>> Andrew E. Larsen >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Dr Jim Bugslag wrote: >>>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >>>> >>>>> >>>>> This is a large subject, and I have never seen any really good >>>>> >>> study of >>> >>>>> it, but you are certainly right about the votive use of candles. >>>>> >>> It was >>> >>>>> common for someone to be "measured for a candle" in relation to an >>>>> >>> expected >>> >>>>> miracle cure at the shrine of a saint, the candle in question being >>>>> >>> either >>> >>>>> the length of the person or their weight. There were also >>>>> >>> trindles, which >>> >>>>> were long tapers, usually wound into a skein. The city of Chartres >>>>> >>> annually >>> >>>>> offered one to the cathedral that was as long as the circumference >>>>> >>> of the >>> >>>>> city walls. And there were all sorts of miraculous candles, as >>>>> >>> well. I >>> >>>>> believe that S. Maria Maggiore in Rome claimed one of four candles >>>>> >>> that were >>> >>>>> believed to have descended from heaven around the Virgin Mary at >>>>> >>> the birth >>> >>>>> of Christ, and in the early 11th century, the Virgin showed up in >>>>> >>> person at >>> >>>>> Arras, leaving the Holy Candle there, with instructions on how to >>>>> >>> use its >>> >>>>> wax to cure the mal des ardents. It was usually believed that such >>>>> >>> candles >>> >>>>> could burn without being consumed, and other miraculous candles >>>>> >>> were often >>> >>>>> created using bits of their wax. >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> Cecilia Gaposchkin wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>>>> >>> culture >>> >>>>>> Hello all, >>>>>> I'm just now catching up on this thread, and it catches my attention >>>>>> because I have just been reading some miracle and pilgrimage >>>>>> >>> stories, and >>> >>>>>> everyone is always pledging candles, and giving candles, and >>>>>> >>> buying candles >>> >>>>>> - candles of quite enormous proportions: candles the length of the >>>>>> >>> tomb, >>> >>>>>> candles the length of a sick son, candles the length and shape of >>>>>> >>> a lame >>> >>>>>> leg, and so forth - to the shrine. >>>>>> >>>>>> When, as a graduate student, I used to lecture at the Cloisters, I >>>>>> >>> had >>> >>>>>> some pithy and almost certainly inaccurate line about the desire >>>>>> >>> for light >>> >>>>>> in churches, the "donations" of candles and [ahem, this is where >>>>>> >>> it becomes >>> >>>>>> methodologically dubious], and appearance of stained glass with Gothic >>>>>> architecture and the "desire" for "light". >>>>>> I'm not really asking for an explanation of that crazy argument. But >>>>>> rather, if we're talking about medieval lighting, can anyone talk >>>>>> >>> abit about >>> >>>>>> the function/economics/aesthetics/and/osprituality of the "candle" >>>>>> >>> in the >>> >>>>>> medieval churches. It seems alot of people were spending alot of >>>>>> >>> money - >>> >>>>>> even money they didn't have much of - on candles. >>>>>> >>>>>> cecilia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:18 PM, John McCulloh <[log in to unmask] <mailto: >>>>>> [log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>>>> culture >>>>>> >>>>>> I had just looked up the reference to suggest the same article. >>>>>> It is fascinating reading. Ekirch presents evidence that, before >>>>>> the advent of cheap electrical lighting, people went to bed at >>>>>> dusk woke up around midnight to relieve themselves, eat and >>>>>> socialize, and then nodded off for their "second sleep." >>>>>> >>>>>> For medievalists it suggests that monks getting up in the middle >>>>>> of the night were not really practicing asceticism. They were >>>>>> following a typical sleep pattern. The monastic element in their >>>>>> vigils was their prayer. >>>>>> >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>>> John M. McCulloh >>>>>> Professor Office >>>>>> tel: 785-532-0373 >>>>>> Department of History Deptal >>>>>> tel: 785-532-6730 >>>>>> Eisenhower Hall FAX: >>>>>> 785-532-7004 >>>>>> Kansas State University >>>>>> Manhattan, KS 66506-1002 >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: "Shannon McSheffrey" <[log in to unmask] >>>>>> < >>>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>>> < >>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:21:35 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada >>>>>> >>> Central >>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [M-R] Medieval lighting >>>>>> >>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>>>> culture >>>>>> >>>>>> On preindustrial sleeping patterns, some might find this article >>>>>> interesting: A. Roger Ekirch, "Sleep We Have Lost: Pre-industrial >>>>>> Slumber in >>>>>> the British Isles," The American Historical Review 106:2 >>>>>> >>> (April, 2001) >>> >>>>>> http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/106.2/ah000343.html. >>>>>> >>>>>> Shannon >>>>>> >>>>>> Dr. Shannon McSheffrey >>>>>> Professor and Chair, Department of History >>>>>> Concordia University >>>>>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. W. >>>>>> Montreal, Quebec CANADA H3G 1M8 >>>>>> >>>>>> [log in to unmask] < >>>>>> >>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR >>>>>> >>> NAME >>> >>>>>> to: [log in to unmask] < >>>>>> To send a message to the list, address it to: >>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>> < >>>>>> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>>>>> to: [log in to unmask] < >>>>>> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, >>>>>> >>> write to: >>> >>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>> < >>>>>> For further information, visit our web site: >>>>>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>>>>> >>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR >>>>>> >>> NAME >>> >>>>>> to: [log in to unmask] < >>>>>> To send a message to the list, address it to: >>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>> < >>>>>> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>>>>> to: [log in to unmask] < >>>>>> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, >>>>>> >>> write to: >>> >>>>>> [log in to unmask] >>>>>> < >>>>>> For further information, visit our web site: >>>>>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> ********************************************************************** >>> To >>> >>>>>> join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>>>>> >>> to: >>> >>>>>> [log in to unmask] To send 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to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> [log in to unmask] >>> For further information, visit our web site: >>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>> >> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] >> To send a message to the list, address it to: >> [log in to unmask] >> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >> to: [log in to unmask] >> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] >> For further information, visit our web site: >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >> > > ********************************************************************** To join > the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: > [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send 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