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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laura Jacobus" <[log in to unmask]> To: "medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture" <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 13 April 2009 18:03 Subject: Re: [M-R] burials in church (and in chapels of ease) > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Very many thanks for all the replies so far, and do please keep them > coming! There's plenty to follow up already, but in answer to questions > which have been raised- > > In this case the Scrovegni held onto the ius patronatus (advowson?) > through several generations and hedged it about with various conditions to > stop it being sold, but it did eventually get sold anyway. I seem to > recall that the sale had to be ratified by the bishop, as this was one of > the original conditions. I've not come across anything stating that the > ius patronatus included the right to burial, and my guess is that it was > unconnected to this right by legal means- but from Jim's reply it may have > been connected by custom ie burial rights may have been one of the > unofficial perks of founding your own church. I wish I knew the answer > with respect to chantries, but my sense is that Italian private chapels > within churches were pretty much the same thing. > > Getting back the the Scrovegnis, there is a theory that the church was > intended as the founder's 'mausoleum' but I find this hard to prove one > way or another as he was eventually buried in an apsidal chapel that was > added to the original church. It's this that made me wonder whether he > needed permission, and whether that had been witheld at the time he built > the church but was later granted, necessitating the addition. The > original permit to build is only known through hearsay, but it suggests > that he was given permission to build it as a convenient place of worship > for members of his household, nothing more. This seems equivalent to an > English estate church or 'chapel of ease', and while I know their patrons > eventually got buried in them too, I wonder whether they needed > permission. > > All best > > Laura > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Izbicki" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: 13 April 2009 16:55 > Subject: [SPAM]Re: [M-R] burials in church > > >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >> Laura, >> Jim's message just reminded me of two things: >> - The ius patronatus of a chapel. Did it include a right to burial? >> Could the right to a chapel be sold? >> - Is there an Italian equivalent to the chantry? The literature on >> English chantry chapels is interesting, but I am unsure how applicable it >> is to Italy. >> Tom Izbicki >> >> jbugslag wrote: >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>> culture >>> >>> Laura, >>> I've been waiting for someone more learned on the matter than me to >>> weigh in on this, but my feeling is that, by 1300, burial in churches >>> was well on the way to becoming quite normal. Before the 11th century, >>> burial usually took place in the churchyard, with the exception of "the >>> very special dead", the saints in other words, and with the equally >>> important exception of founders of churches and their families, which in >>> the time before the investiture controversy were very widespread. >>> Beginning in the 11th century, burials within churches began to >>> multiply. From founders, heads of religious institutions began to >>> demand this right, and from there, the floodgates opened. Before the >>> 13th century, church burial was still a highly prestigious privilege, >>> but even after it became quite common, most people would have still been >>> buried outside in the churchyard. And initially, the cost of this >>> privilege was prohibitively high. At Peterborough in England, for >>> example, Abbot Ernulf (1107-1114) made an agreement between his convent >>> and those knights who held abbey lands, that a knight should pay yearly >>> two parts of his tithes and at his death a third of his whole estate for >>> burial in the church. As well, all his "knightly endowments", including >>> his horse and his arms were to be brought with his body to the funeral >>> ceremonies and offered up to St Peter, at which time the convent >>> received the corpse in procession and performed the Office of the Dead. >>> As burial in the church became more common, the cost was undoubtedly >>> made more reasonable. By the later Middle Ages, it was undoubtedly >>> relatively inexpensive, yet other factors were then involved in church >>> burial. Under normal circumstances, an individual was expected to be >>> buried at his parish church (whether inside or in the cemetery >>> surrounding it), but the appearance of the Mendicant orders changed that >>> situation dramatically. More and more, mendicant churches began to >>> compete with parish churches for the burial of citizens, to the point >>> where they were widely criticized for it. And the concept of an >>> Eigenkirche certainly did not go away. Both monastic and collegiate >>> churches were founded in the later Middle Ages specifically as burial >>> churches, either for individuals or dynasties. Concurrently, private >>> chapels within larger churches began to proliferate. An indicative >>> "early" example is the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Paris; as built in the >>> late 12th and early 13th century, it was ringed with projecting >>> buttresses supporting the flyers above. During the late 13th and early >>> 14th centuries, the aisle walls were progressively broken through, and >>> private chapels built between the buttresses, to the point where the >>> entire cathedral was ringed with private chapels. In Italy, such >>> private chapels came to be designed from the beginning, as at S. Croce, >>> the Franciscan church in Florence. Although I am not certain of the >>> legal basis for it, families could "buy" such chapels, although it was >>> not always the case that they accommodated burials. A good source for >>> this phenomenon, from an architectural point of view, is H.M. Colvin's >>> Architecture and the Afterlife, but I can't remember whether he >>> addresses the institutional aspects of the phenomenon that you were >>> enquiring after. Another source that might be useful is Philippe >>> Aries's encyclopedic The Hour of Our Death, which certainly treats this >>> phenomenon from many perspectives in considerable detail. Erwin >>> Panofsky's book, Tomb Sculpture, may also be useful. In relation to >>> your specific topic, it strikes me that the Scrovegni family was >>> essentially emulating noble practice in founding a family chapel that >>> would accommodate burial. You might consider "parallel" cases such as >>> the Church of Notre-Dame at Ecouis, founded in the early 14th century by >>> Enguerrand de Marigny as a dynastic burial church (cf the book on this >>> by Dorothy Gillerman) or the monastery of Tewkesbury in England, >>> refurbished as a dynastic mausoleum in the early 14th century by the >>> Despenser family. I hope your query provokes a response that addresses >>> legislation, because I am interested in it, too. Cheers, >>> Jim Bugslag >>> >>> On 12 Apr 2009 at 14:10, Laura Jacobus wrote: >>> >>> >>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >>>> culture >>>> >>>> Happy Easter and Passover to all. >>>> >>>> Can anyone tell me what regulations or customs existed regarding >>>> burials in churches (thirteen and fourteenth century Italy being my >>>> main concerns)? I'm working on a private church (the Scrovegni Chapel >>>> in Padua), and my sense is that c.1300 it was still quite rare for >>>> lay-people to be buried in churches, though the practice was gaining >>>> in popularity and Italian churches began to sprout private family >>>> chapels for the purpose around this time. I'd be particularly >>>> interested to know whether private churches or family chapels within >>>> churches might have needed a special license for burials, or whether >>>> it was simply assumed that patrons had the right to be buried in them. >>>> >>>> All best >>>> >>>> Laura >>>> >>>> ********************************************************************** >>>> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>>> to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it >>>> to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the >>>> message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order >>>> to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>>> [log in to unmask] For further information, >>>> visit our web site: >>>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>>> >>> >>> ********************************************************************** >>> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>> to: [log in to unmask] >>> To send a message to the list, address it to: >>> [log in to unmask] >>> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>> to: [log in to unmask] >>> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> [log in to unmask] >>> For further information, visit our web site: >>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>> >> >> ********************************************************************** >> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >> to: [log in to unmask] >> To send a message to the list, address it to: >> [log in to unmask] >> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >> to: [log in to unmask] >> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >> [log in to unmask] >> For further information, visit our web site: >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html