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Dear Kathryn, Yep - the quality without a name - for me this is found in the making and it is obvious in the patterning when the patterning is "natural" which is to say it has about it the quality of "self arising" which is what natural means. The city is NOT a tree - not because the city is not natural - but, because the city IS natural in as much as its patterns arise naturally. Patterns that are imposed have the tree structure. Trees do NOT have the pattern of a tree - they are trees. cheers keith >>> Kathryn Simon <[log in to unmask]> 06/26/08 11:02 PM >>> Keith I hadn't meant so much as his "pattern languages" as his search for the natural-the quality without a name. Poetry and resonance of great writing and great work finds a cadence that hits-that connects. I meant to say only that this is something that can still be found in design and somehow (this is purely intuitive for this moment) in textiles. As a former textile designer I am familiar with the process that is created which seems substantively different than the process of designing clothing. Perhaps this quality exists in the original construction and then gets lost. On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 3:43 AM, Keith Russell < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Dear Kathryn > > I wrote a reply to this topic and had my email system eat it in my face. > > So perhaps I will give a less direct response this time? > > I know the Alexander stuff, but I am not an expert. > > The embodied literature is mostly about poets and VOICE. > > Great poets shift sounds within patterns with extraordinary skill. Late > Shakespeare is a master of the English tongue in ways that make it silly to > ask school kids to scan his lines looking for simple iambics. > > The best example of Alexander's concepts of pattern can be found in John > Milton's Paradise Lost. The first verse block announces the generative > pattern for the tens of thousands of lines that follow. > > T.S. Eliot complained about Milton because Eliot saw Milton destroying > English. The real issue, for Eliot is that Milton could use a singular > complex pattern whereas Eliot had to use fragments and interruptions - like > listening to a radio on a train. > > Eliot pointed out that Shakespeare's sounds were based on rowing (short > lift, long stroke). For modern poets, Eliot pointed out we now use trains, > and cars etc as the generative rhythm. > > When poets get together they can all start speaking in strict iambic, then > drop into spondee and so on. For days afterwards I can speak in the patterns > of fellow poets. > > In my textile work I do both geometrics and free form. These have > generative and emergent patterns that include the palette. Logics tend to > arise through problems and solutions. > > hope some of this is of use. > > cheers > > keith > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > Hi Keith > > I really like the idea of textiles you bring up. Clearly for you language > functions > viscerally. However from what I have read in and about design that is rare. > > As soon as you mentioned textiles there was a natural resonance coming from > something I suspect unites the body with language. > > Would it be possible to read something you have written that speaks to > this? > > Have you read Christopher Alexander's work? (The Timeless Way of Building) > He seems to work with these ideas from the point of embodiment. > > This is the subject of my dissertation so I am listening carefully as all > of us are coming to this from > diverse design, cultural and intellectual backgrounds offering what we have > found. > > Looking forward to hearing more. Textiles, they remain the one mystery > still capable of enveloping > a culture, an idea and a beingness that takes in both worlds, art and > design without being lessened by either. > > Kathryn Simon > Adjunct Professor > Fashion History and Fashion Theory > Parsons School of Design > -- > VERMILLIONmedia > -- Kathryn Simon VERMILLIONmedia 917 226 2860 Cultural Producer & Curator Art/Design