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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I went to a lecture last night at the U. of Washington on religion & violence. The speaker's conclusions, after 4 years of study, 2000+ interviews with US Protestants, & many many books on many other religions across history, was: well, yes and no. Luis Gutierrez theorizes about religion but he talks about Christianity. He has yet to define religion. DW Luis Gutierrez wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > Terrill Heaps wrote: >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and >> culture >> >> Luis Gutierrez wrote: >> >> >>> However, the Thomas Aquinas teaching >>> is still perpetuated in many churches >>> that refuse to ordain women and give them >>> roles of religious authority. >>> This goes back to a literalist reading >>> of St Paul and Genesis 3:16. >> >> >> The fact that the Church only ordains males has nothing to do with >> Aquinas, >> who wasn't even born, until 1225. Neither has it anything to do with >> the >> mythos of creation in Genesis. It has to do with following that which >> was >> established by the individual whom Luiz described as the one "who was >> fully >> human without ceasing to be fully divine." > > What about St. Paul ... what about Genesis 3:16 ... > > Yes, he is fully divine and fully human. Therefore, unless women are > not human, he assumed the totality of human nature -- male and female. > Being male or female is one of the limitations of the human condition. > Now we know (since Jung) that there is man in woman and woman in man, > but that's another discussion. > > And no, it has nothing to do with him, unless you insist in a > *literalist* (as opposed to *literal*) reading of the bible. > >> Luiz states in his original posting, "my working hypothesis is that >> the human >> propensity to violence is rooted in pre-historical religious violence." >> >> If we take his presuposition that there is a "human propensity to >> violence," >> one wonders how he manages to make the category leap from a >> "characteristic" >> of humanity to blaming that "characteristic" on religious >> inculturation. Of >> course, if religious inculturation is genetically transmittable to >> the next >> generation, then one might posit such a view. However, such a view as >> genetic >> transmission of religious inculturation is patently absurd. Religious >> inculturation happens subsequent to one's birth. We are humans at >> birth. To >> state that humans have a propensity toward violence, and further to >> state that >> such propensity toward violence is an effect of religious inculturation >> presents a problem. It requires the effect to antedate its own cause. >> And >> this, being absurd, cannot be. > > Are you familiar with the work of French philosopher-anthropologist > Ren� Girard? He shows that there is an intrinsic link between > violence and religion, and that this has been so since primitive > religions practiced sacred violence (including human sacrifice) to > appease the Gods when they were in trouble. The crucifixion of Jesus > is part of that pattern, but critical in that it was the religious > sacrifice to end all religious sacrifice. Girard's theory of > religious violence is based on analysis of extant mythologies. You > may want to take a look at the following: > > Colloquium on Violence and Religion > http://theol.uibk.ac.at/cover/index.html > > Girardian Reflections on the Lectionary > http://www.girardianlectionary.net/ > > Heim, S. Mark. Saved from Sacrifice: A Theology of the Cross. Grand > Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2006. Paperback: 346 pages. > > Publisher's Description: "The cross has long been not only a scandal > but also a profound paradox: filled with saving significance and > power, it is at the same time a sobering tragedy. In Saved from > Sacrifice theologian Mark Heim takes on this paradox, asserting that > the cross must be understood against the whole history of human > scapegoating violence. In order to highlight the dimensions of his > argument, Heim carefully and critically draws on the groundbreaking > work of French theorist and biblical scholar Ren� Girard. Yet Heim > goes beyond Girard to develop a comprehensive theology of the > atonement and the cross through his fresh readings of well-known > biblical passages and his exploration of the place of the victim." > > The peace of Christ, > Luis > >> No > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html