Hi Harvey

I'd certainly agree.We need to get away from a view of knowledge 
that is tied up with subject-object metaphysics, portraying
a detached, passive, observing, ghostly, transcendent subject.
We are embodied beings, we only become aware of things and
others because they are interacting with us and changing us,
energy and matter (being one way we understand these changes,
human conscious experience being another)
is always exchanged for there to be any
sensations at all, and what changes us becomes 'known' by
us because it 'matters' to us. We are in constant change due
to interacting with our occupied and shared environment, and
as living beings these changes do not leave us indifferent: they
are either good or bad. It is only through Others and society
that we change into the sort of embodied beings we know of as
human beings.

David Morey
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Harvey Sarles 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:23 AM
  Subject: Re: From knowledge to wisdom- but how and when

  Peirce did have some wonderful ideas, some of which passed on to his intellectual heirs via Pragmatism, and some even to me. My favorite thinker - George Herbert Mead takes Peirce's idea that we not only think, but also "do" (Peirce's "abduction"), to note that we are active bodies - in-interaction with other('s) bodies. 

  As I have been working with his ideas (and some others in Developmental work - "Attachment Theory" as it's being labeled), the infant (each of us) is no mere individual body whose mind develops knowledge somehow. But we are deeply engaged with our m/other's on a long-term basis - and knowledge and self flow from this expanding dynamic relationship. The self (you and I) "emerges" from sociality, and this insight "inverts" - I would claim - much of Western thought about our being.

  So: get back to work, and I hope we have a meeting someday, perhaps soon.
  On Jan 3, 2007, at 12:01 AM, Wilvon wrote:

          Some message from me here again.
          My PhD dissertation can and will be some major input for a lot of changes. The considerations of friends of wisdom maybe being only a small part of it. I hope to complete it still in some months time. Even though my personal problems, that are caused by OTHERS because of actually a lot of mistakes in life that I give better solutions for in my dissertation, might prevent me to complete it that soon. BUT I will try to do my utmost to complete it as soon as possible. Then send it also to everyone here on the list.

          Quite generally, I just want to state here that there has been enough of thinking in academics. It is time that much more of the great insights of intellectuals and academics are put into practise. It is time to DO something. Or actually, a lot. TOGETHER. I think that is also ultimate goal of friends of wisdom, but, it is indeed wise to indeed first know well enough what to do and how to do it.

          About how academics has to be changed, I can tell: I know. Very well. Even dare to say I know it probably better then anyone else. The main parts of it, methodologically speaking, are by "just" returning to the greatest philosopher who ever lived : Charles Sanders Peirce. His ways of academical methodologies and practises were sound. And complete. The ones of current so-called academics are NOT. There is a LOT missing. Both in form (methodologies) as in content (quality of methodologies, issues taken into regard). BUT about same things are missed in practise!. And, I know quite well WHAT to change. And HOW. And I even know the when can be soon. Very soon.

          Let me show it to you. To all of you. To the whole world. What I mean. But not a bit patient with me. In meantime, some of you who might be interested, just read the essential Peirce I & II. I dare to say I am probably understanding Peirce, and a lot more, better then whoever at this moment. Quite some parts probably better then he did himself.

          I can not believe I actually typed this now. But it is all true. And I am just going to post it now. But like I said, be patient. Might be it still takes me 2 more years. You will never know. Especially now with some people doing damage without knowing they do. And to what extends.

          Kind regards,

          Wilfred Berendsen