Well, if the data cannot be shared then the same questions will have to be asked repeatedly. That is why in the NHS there is the idea of the data following the patient. I don't see where the accuracy comes into it. If the data is not there, for whatever reason, but including the fact of there being walls (Chinese or otherwise) between organisations then the same questions will have to be asked repeatedly and the same information be given repeatedly. If the world was Wiltshire and every service was provided by Wiltshire County Council you might have a point. But even then there might be objections to data being passed between Housing and Social Services. I think that people are concerned about inaccurate data (credit ratings) but people are also concerned about accurate data to organisations that they didn't realise should have access to it. Some years ago when I was going for Information Governance posts in the NHS there were IG Principles (I think) on the NHSIA (NHS Information Authority) website. Well the NHSIA is no longer, and the Principles as such no longer seem to be available. It seems another NHS flavour of the month. Otherwise I would have quoted them. But see, for instance, http://www.hunts-pct.nhs.uk/documents/Publications/Policies/Operational/Records_Management_Policy.pdf?preventCache=06%2F05%2F2005+09%3A15 (http://preview.tinyurl.com/yo3jo9) "The core objectives supported by the Records Management Policy and Strategy include attention to Information Governance Principles of: Security, Confidentiality & Caldicott Principles Efficient processing Accurate and reliable documentation Effective and ethical usage Sharing of information that is appropriate and lawful Timely access in a format that is compatible with individual needs" Nick Landau ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tinsley, Chris" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure I think people would prefer that the NHS, central Government and Local Government simply got the information accurate, secure and not excessive as DP requires and then made it available to the right people at the right. Then the NHS would not have to ask the same question time and time again. Is it to much to ask? Chris Tinsley MSc Wiltshire County Council Information is the key -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Landau Sent: 19 January 2007 12:49 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure On the subject of the DPA requiring the organisation to keep sufficient but not excessive data. The principles of Information Governance in the NHS also stress this - and it goes on that patients should not be repeatedly asked the same questions - and therefore that the data should travel with the patient - which leads to the concept of information sharing. This has people then concerned about the lack of security of their data and Big Brother. So maybe people would be prefer their privacy and data being wrong and inconsistent - and doctors not being able to get it when it is needed. As usual, it seems the great British public want it both ways. Nick Landau ----- Original Message ----- From: "Blewitt, David" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure Section 29 is to help the police within the constraints of the law, which this request wasn't. I wouldn't like a college to give out the personal details of my son/daugter to the police without consent, just because he had a particular first name. But to the point. Re fingerprinting, the DPA requires us not to collect sufficient but not excessive data. Keeping a minmum of data is appropriate, and as you suggest, the answer. Fingerprinting to me is excessive. The government changes the rules as it sees fit - it could madate that all school records be transferred to a central database in the future. If I had a belief we have no fear of a Big Brother society creeping up on us, I would see no problem. I however side with the Information Commisioner that we should be concerned about it creeping up on us. -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Ian Sent: 19 January 2007 11:48 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure As I understand Section 29 is basiclly there to assist Police? Is the issue here that Section 29 gets proportionally more powerful as the dataset increases in size and scope? Is keeping less data the answer? -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Blewitt, David Sent: 19 January 2007 11:40 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure I recently had the police at our college wanting the personal details of all girls in the college with a certain first name in the age range 14 to 18. They didn't get it from us, but looks like they did from the local high school. Wouldn't be beyond the realms of possiblity they would have asked for fingerprints if we had them, and lesser confident educational establishments not aware of section 29 details passing them over. No, finger printing of school kids is over the top. You are right though, the National Identity Register should be the cause for concern. If you feel strongly about the register, add your name to the 10 Downing street petition on the matter: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/IDreferendum/ - and circulate it to others. David Blewitt -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner Sent: 19 January 2007 08:29 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure What I really don't believe is that schools will soon be passing fingerprint records taken for library purposes to MI5, MI6 and DEFRA, en masse. It's an absurd proposition. Apart from anything else, what would these people want with schoolchildren's fingerprints? If the idea is that they're building up profiles of UK citizens, I think the National Identity Register should be the cause for concern, rather than schools using your kid's prints to get Asterix books out. Tim Turner Data Protection / FOI Officer Legal and Property Services Wigan Council -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Ian Sent: Thu 18 January 2007 15:33 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure I don't think it is a question of belief - the schools are legally obligated to declare their purpose. Also the school network is as secure as the school will have considered that it needs to be given the increased value of the data with the addition of this technology. In theory. Ian -----Original Message----- From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tinsley, Chris Sent: 18 January 2007 14:55 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [data-protection] School fingerprinting: Warning: likely to r aise blood pressure I never believe officals when they say say that these things will only be used for one purpose, the fingerprint will soon end up in the hands of the police, MI5, MI6, Home Office, Foreign Office and even DEFRA. 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