I think I understood what you were asking, and thus passed over the 
example of Thomas that came to mind first. I'm having a harder time 
trying to think of a scriptural example of the sort you're looking for.
to make sure I'm on the same page, you're trying to find an example of 
a biblical scene in which the senses tell an individual that one thing is 
before him/her while faith tells the person that something else entirely 
is before him/her. Correct?

I'm not sure if this would serve your purpose, but how about the 
different interpretations of the Last Supper? When Jesus says of the 
bread, "this is my body," Elizabethan Protestants would look at the 
bread in the communion and say, "that's still bread" while followers of 
Rome would say "that is his body." And perhaps the recognition on the 
road to Emmaus, where the disciples recognize the risen Christ "in the 
breaking of the bread" might add to this.

Still, you're probably looking for a less controversial example, where a 
patriarch believes one thing despite the evidence of the senses telling 
him something different. And there I'm drawing a blank.

--Andy Fleck

Original Message:
From: James W. Broaddus [log in to unmask]
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:05:35 -0700
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: 3rd try,  faith and the senses,

As usual, I didn't explain things clearly. 

I don't think Thomas provides the equivalent I was looking for.  

Thomas does not have faith sufficient to believe that the one standing 
before him was, in fact, the physical Jesus until he proved what he saw 
by his sense of touch. 

Redcrosse, on the other hand, does not have faith sufficient to doubt, 
much less to refuse to believe, that he sees Una in bed with a lusty 

My revised questions are: does anyone in the scriptures demonstrate 
the kind of faith Redcrosse lacks? Or is anyone in the scriptures found 
wanting because he or she lacks such faith?

I hope this is clearer.

Jim Broaddus


Redcrosse, on  the other hand, believes what his senses told him 
about the bed scene. what he saw when 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: James W. Broaddus 
To: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 11:08 AM
Subject: f2nd try, aith and the senses, 

I think I have sent an incomplete query to the list. Let me try again.

Redcrosse's abandonment of Una is typically understood as a failure 
of faith caused by a dependence on his senses.

My question: is there a scriptural equivalent?

Christians are asked in different ways have faith and not believe what 
ordinary experience tells them.  But is there an occasion in the Bible in 
which one's faith is supposed to override what is presented to one's 

I hope I haven't revealed complete, overwhelming ignorance.

Jim Broaddus

James W. Broaddus
Emeritus, Ind. State.
Route 3 Box 1037
Brodhead, KY 40409

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