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From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Thomas Izbicki
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 3:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Cybele and BVM
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
Is there any indication when Christians started
reusing temples as churches? I did a lot
of reading on the churches of Rome years ago, & I believe it was Rome in
the Dark Ages by Peter Llewellyn (London, 1993) that said Christians let the
Pantheon etc. sit idle for a long period before taking them over as
churches (ca. 7th century).
Tom Izbicki
Thomas Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns
(410)516-7173
fax (410)516-8399
>>> [log in to unmask] 08/23/05 4:04 PM
>>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
Gregory's writ did not run in
there are a vast number of replacement or evolved
shrines. I used to live
in the Argolid & was fascinated that a shrine to
which Hera was taken
annually to bathe (Pausanias) has been, at least from
the 12th C, a
convent/monastery to Zoodochos Pigi, the Life-Giving
Fountain, which icon
shows the Virgin in a chalice from which pour 4
streams of water.
Churches dedicated to Ag. Marina [
out of which she busted: every Ag.
temple to Athena [who busted out of Zeus' head....].
Ag. Elias who went to heaven in a chariot has long
been confounded with
Helios & his sun chariot.
The small church to Ag. Thomas encorporates a
preChristian rock with a hole
in it through which children are passed for
healing. And so on and so
forth.
It is, I believe, impossible to demonstrate continuity
at any of these
sites: there have been so many massacres, transfers of
populations,
destructions of buildings, periods of wealth &
literacy [and so familiarity
with classical works], foreign dominations [including
foreigners who come
wanting continuities], etc..
DW
2. What may be significant would be attempts to uproot
Cybele worship AND
replace it with Marian veneration. To chart this one
would have to know a
fair number of Cybele temples which became Marian
shrines or hymns to Mary
patterned on earlier aretologies. Here Ep. XI.56 of
Gregory the Great (601)
is instructive. In
this letter he deliberately advocates replacement of
non-Christian effigies and shrines with Christian
ones. This was a change
from his earlier policy--and that of Boniface--of
simply obliterating
non-Christian cultic images. Augustine also wrote
about the replacement of
a Christian church on the site of a Magna Mater temple
on the
Byrsa. Though the temple was demolished women still
brought their offerings
to the hill. There is also the case of the Kollyridian
in Epiphanius,
Panarian.
Finally, the shrine to Mary at the base of the hill of the
Parthenon in
of what was once a goddess shrine and the guardians of
the Marian shrine to
this day are all women.
It is
true, as several correspondents have noted, that early
Christianity did not teach that Mary should be given
divine honors.
However, the history of Marian devotion does not
always make clear how
people venerating Mary imagined her or what they might
be doing on site
formerly hallowed by goddess worship.
Author
Borgeaud,
Philippe
Title
Mère des dieux.
English
Mother of the
gods : from Cybele to the Virgin Mary / Philippe Borgeaud ;
translated by
Lysa Hochroth
Imprint
Click on the following
to:
Connect to
http://www.loc.gov/catdir/bios/jhu051/2004004563.html
Connect to
http://www.loc.gov/catdir/description/jhu051/2004004563.html
Connect to
http://www.loc.gov/catdir/toc/ecip0415/2004004563.html
Descript
xix, 186 p. ;
24 cm
Bibliog.
Includes
bibliographical references (p. [133]-177) and indexes
Contents
An itinerant
mother -- In the Athenian Agora -- The invention of a
mythology --
The mother's entrance into the
of the Mater
Magna -- Attis in the Imperial period -- From mother of the
gods to Mother
of God
Subjects
Mary, Blessed
Virgin, Saint -- Devotion to
Cybele
(Goddess)
Christianity
and other religions -- Roman
Mother
goddesses --
OCLC #
54529874
ISBN
080187985X
(alk. paper
Author
Julian, Emperor
of
Title
Eis t¯en
m¯etera t¯on the¯on. Italian & Greek
Alla madre
degli dei / Giuliano Imperatore ; edizione critica, traduzione
e commento a
cura di Valerio Ugenti
Imprint
[Galatina] :
Gongedo, 1992
Alt name
Ugenti,
Valerio, 1950-
Descript
xxx, 176 p. ;
24 cm
Series
Testi e studi /
Università degli studi di
classica e
medioevale ; 6
Testi e studi
(Università degli studi di
classica e
medioevale) ; 6
Bibliog.
Includes
bibliographical references and indexes
Subjects
Cybele
(Goddess) -- Cult -- Early works to 1800
Attis (God) --
Cult -- Early works to 1800
OCLC #
33357148
ISBN
8877865547 :
L50.000
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|Langener, Lucia
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| Title
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|Isis lactans--Maria lactans : Untersuchungen zur
koptischen Ikonographie /|
|Lucia Langener
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| Publish info
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|Altenberge : Oros Verlag, 1996 |
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| Descript'n |
|xiii, 323 p., viii, 190 p. : ill. ; 21 cm |
| Series
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|Arbeiten zum spätantiken und koptischen Ägypten ;
9 |
| Note
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|Originally presented as the author's thesis
(Westfälischen |
|Wilhelms-Universität in Münster, 1995) |
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|Includes bibliographical references |
| Subjects
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|Isis (Egyptian deity) -- Art |
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|Mary, Blessed Virgin, Saint -- Art |
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|Breastfeeding in art
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|Art, Coptic -- Themes, motives |
| OCLC #
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|37157894
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|3893751319 :
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Also see
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| An Isis Aretalogy from Kyme in
| Corrington Streete
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in
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| Title
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|Religions of late antiquity in practice / Richard
Valantasis, editor |
| Publish info
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|Princeton, N.J. :
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When one finds a litany directly patterned on an
aretology of a goddess,
one can surmise something of the tactics Gregory
promoted.
For those
of you who are interested in Mariology, I suggest the
resources of the library of the International Marian
Research Institute,
here in
<http://www.udayton.edu/~mary/>. The library
holdings can be accessed at
<http://library.udayton.edu>.
Maureen A. Tilley
Coordinator of Undergraduate Studies
President, North American Patristics Society
(937) 229-4564
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| | Thomas Izbicki |
| | <[log in to unmask]> |
| | Sent by: |
| | medieval-religion - |
| | Scholarly discussions |
| | of medieval religious |
| | culture |
| | <MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISC|
| | MAIL.AC.UK> |
| | |
| | |
| | 08/23/2005 02:23 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | medieval-religion - |
| | Scholarly discussions |
| | of medieval religious |
| | culture |
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Re: [M-R] Cybele and BVM
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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
I have seen it suggested recently, in a book on
Virgin & Child might have been copied back when
from Isis & Horus. Has
anyone actually done comparative work in that line?
Copying styles, of course, is not the same as simple
renaming of a godess,
which I find unlikely.
Tom Izbicki
Thomas Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns
(410)516-7173
fax (410)516-8399
>>> [log in to unmask] 08/23/05 2:10
AM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval
religion and culture
I, for one, do not believe it in any sense, think it
is nonsense and
impossible to back up. Claims of this sort have been
around ever since
there
were Christians to persecute and will always be with
us. The innate thirst
for the transcendent chafes certain people, who then
find it necessary to
lash out at believers. I learned ages ago to ignore
them.
MG
>From: Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly
discussions of medieval religious
>
culture <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 22. August
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:28:02 -0500
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of
medieval religion and culture
>
>
> > As Cybele, the Mother Goddess, has been
replaced by the BVM
>
>A claim that, however much one would like to
believe it in some sense, is
>very
>difficult to back up, let alone explain. Any takers?
>Cheers,
>Jim Bugslag
>
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