medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Krautheimer's Rome: Portrait of a City is the definitive discussion of temple reuse, and, I think, the source of the claim that Christians were not eager to move into these demon-haunted places. Note that while the Pantheon did not become Santa Maria Rotonda until the early 600s, the healing temple of Aesclepius on the Tiber Island never got Christianized until Otto III.
--John Howe, Texas Tech
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Thomas Izbicki
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 3:12 PM
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Subject: Re: [M-R] Cybele and BVM
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Is there any indication when Christians started reusing temples as churches? I did a lot of reading on the churches of Rome years ago, & I believe it was Rome in the Dark Ages by Peter Llewellyn (London, 1993) that said Christians let the Pantheon etc. sit idle for a long period before taking them over as churches (ca. 7th century).
Tom Izbicki
Thomas Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns Hopkins
Baltimore, MD 21218
(410)516-7173
fax (410)516-8399
>>> [log in to unmask] 08/23/05 4:04 PM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Gregory's writ did not run in Greece -- at that point, no one's did -- but
there are a vast number of replacement or evolved shrines. I used to live
in the Argolid & was fascinated that a shrine to which Hera was taken
annually to bathe (Pausanias) has been, at least from the 12th C, a
convent/monastery to Zoodochos Pigi, the Life-Giving Fountain, which icon
shows the Virgin in a chalice from which pour 4 streams of water.
Churches dedicated to Ag. Marina [Western Margherita] show her with a dragon
out of which she busted: every Ag. Marina I know is built on the base of a
temple to Athena [who busted out of Zeus' head....].
Ag. Elias who went to heaven in a chariot has long been confounded with
Helios & his sun chariot.
The small church to Ag. Thomas encorporates a preChristian rock with a hole
in it through which children are passed for healing. And so on and so
forth.
It is, I believe, impossible to demonstrate continuity at any of these
sites: there have been so many massacres, transfers of populations,
destructions of buildings, periods of wealth & literacy [and so familiarity
with classical works], foreign dominations [including foreigners who come
wanting continuities], etc..
DW
2. What may be significant would be attempts to uproot Cybele worship AND
replace it with Marian veneration. To chart this one would have to know a
fair number of Cybele temples which became Marian shrines or hymns to Mary
patterned on earlier aretologies. Here Ep. XI.56 of Gregory the Great (601)
is instructive. In this letter he deliberately advocates replacement of
non-Christian effigies and shrines with Christian ones. This was a change
from his earlier policy--and that of Boniface--of simply obliterating
non-Christian cultic images. Augustine also wrote about the replacement of
a Christian church on the site of a Magna Mater temple on the Carthage
Byrsa. Though the temple was demolished women still brought their offerings
to the hill. There is also the case of the Kollyridian in Epiphanius,
Panarian. Finally, the shrine to Mary at the base of the hill of the
Parthenon in Athens (still extant) might be instructive. It is on the site
of what was once a goddess shrine and the guardians of the Marian shrine to
this day are all women.
It is true, as several correspondents have noted, that early
Christianity did not teach that Mary should be given divine honors.
However, the history of Marian devotion does not always make clear how
people venerating Mary imagined her or what they might be doing on site
formerly hallowed by goddess worship.
Author
Borgeaud, Philippe
Title
Mère des dieux. English
Mother of the gods : from Cybele to the Virgin Mary / Philippe Borgeaud ;
translated by Lysa Hochroth
Imprint
Baltimore : Johns Hopkins University Press, 2004
Click on the following to:
Connect to http://www.loc.gov/catdir/bios/jhu051/2004004563.html
Connect to http://www.loc.gov/catdir/description/jhu051/2004004563.html
Connect to http://www.loc.gov/catdir/toc/ecip0415/2004004563.html
Descript
xix, 186 p. ; 24 cm
Bibliog.
Includes bibliographical references (p. [133]-177) and indexes
Contents
An itinerant mother -- In the Athenian Agora -- The invention of a
mythology -- The mother's entrance into the Roman Republic -- The origin
of the Mater Magna -- Attis in the Imperial period -- From mother of the
gods to Mother of God
Subjects
Mary, Blessed Virgin, Saint -- Devotion to
Cybele (Goddess)
Christianity and other religions -- Roman
Mother goddesses -- Rome
OCLC #
54529874
ISBN
080187985X (alk. paper
Author
Julian, Emperor of Rome, 331-363
Title
Eis t¯en m¯etera t¯on the¯on. Italian & Greek
Alla madre degli dei / Giuliano Imperatore ; edizione critica, traduzione
e commento a cura di Valerio Ugenti
Imprint
[Galatina] : Gongedo, 1992
Alt name
Ugenti, Valerio, 1950-
Descript
xxx, 176 p. ; 24 cm
Series
Testi e studi / Università degli studi di Lecce, Dipartimento di filologia
classica e medioevale ; 6
Testi e studi (Università degli studi di Lecce. Dipartimento di filologia
classica e medioevale) ; 6
Bibliog.
Includes bibliographical references and indexes
Subjects
Cybele (Goddess) -- Cult -- Early works to 1800
Attis (God) -- Cult -- Early works to 1800
Rome -- Religion -- Early works to 1800
OCLC #
33357148
ISBN
8877865547 : L50.000
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| Author |
|Langener, Lucia |
| Title |
|Isis lactans--Maria lactans : Untersuchungen zur koptischen Ikonographie /|
|Lucia Langener |
| Publish info |
|Altenberge : Oros Verlag, 1996 |
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| Descript'n |
|xiii, 323 p., viii, 190 p. : ill. ; 21 cm |
| Series |
|Arbeiten zum spätantiken und koptischen Ägypten ; 9 |
| Note |
|Originally presented as the author's thesis (Westfälischen |
|Wilhelms-Universität in Münster, 1995) |
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|Includes bibliographical references |
| Subjects |
|Isis (Egyptian deity) -- Art |
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|Mary, Blessed Virgin, Saint -- Art |
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|Breastfeeding in art |
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|Art, Coptic -- Themes, motives |
| OCLC # |
|37157894 |
| ISBN |
|3893751319 : |
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Also see
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| An Isis Aretalogy from Kyme in Asia Minor, First Century B.C.E. / Gail |
| Corrington Streete |
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in
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|Religions of late antiquity in practice / Richard Valantasis, editor |
| Publish info |
|Princeton, N.J. : Princeton University Press, c2000 |
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When one finds a litany directly patterned on an aretology of a goddess,
one can surmise something of the tactics Gregory promoted.
For those of you who are interested in Mariology, I suggest the
resources of the library of the International Marian Research Institute,
here in Dayton. Their web page is
<http://www.udayton.edu/~mary/>. The library holdings can be accessed at
<http://library.udayton.edu>.
Maureen A. Tilley
Coordinator of Undergraduate Studies
President, North American Patristics Society
University of Dayton, Department of Religious Studies
Dayton, OH 45469-1530
(937) 229-4564
|---------+---------------------------------->
| | Thomas Izbicki |
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| | medieval-religion - |
| | Scholarly discussions |
| | of medieval religious |
| | culture |
| | <MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISC|
| | MAIL.AC.UK> |
| | |
| | |
| | 08/23/2005 02:23 PM |
| | Please respond to |
| | medieval-religion - |
| | Scholarly discussions |
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| Subject: Re: [M-R] Cybele and BVM
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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I have seen it suggested recently, in a book on Herculaneum, that poses for
Virgin & Child might have been copied back when from Isis & Horus. Has
anyone actually done comparative work in that line?
Copying styles, of course, is not the same as simple renaming of a godess,
which I find unlikely.
Tom Izbicki
Thomas Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns Hopkins
Baltimore, MD 21218
(410)516-7173
fax (410)516-8399
>>> [log in to unmask] 08/23/05 2:10 AM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I, for one, do not believe it in any sense, think it is nonsense and
impossible to back up. Claims of this sort have been around ever since
there
were Christians to persecute and will always be with us. The innate thirst
for the transcendent chafes certain people, who then find it necessary to
lash out at believers. I learned ages ago to ignore them.
MG
>From: Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 22. August
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:28:02 -0500
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>
> > As Cybele, the Mother Goddess, has been replaced by the BVM
>
>A claim that, however much one would like to believe it in some sense, is
>very
>difficult to back up, let alone explain. Any takers?
>Cheers,
>Jim Bugslag
>
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