Hi
I would be very interested to hear from institutions who are deploying at
an enterprise class level. I am aware that in the USA some sates have
deployed VLE at the state level as have C2K in Northern Ireland. Another
factor must be considered here which is the number of simultaneous
connections (seats) required. Although an institution may have a total of
20,000 students and users how many will connect at any time. It is this
figure which must be sought to determine the hardware and also back-end
software used. Interestingly some open source databases are coded in pure
SQL which should mean they will run on MySql, SQL Server or Oracle. As
Lawrence infers this would offer some direct performance gains, Oracle has
capabilities which offer greater performance where large volumes of
transactions are required. I would be interested to hear about load
balancing using OS VLE like Moodle, has anyone implemented?
I guess allot of these questions come back to a simple statement 'the
system must reflect the needs of your institution, organisation or
business'. What we have to work with is a triangle:
Cost
/ \
/ \
/ \
Time --------- Quality
We cannot have all points of the triangle at any time, we need to do are
research and find out what is best for us. This should keep everyone busy.
Luke Bennett
The Guardian, Learnthings
Production Manager
www.learnpremium.co.uk
5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
London EC1M 3JU
Tel: 0207 866 9822 Ext: 8822
Mobile: 07977 059 183
Fax: 020 7713 4108
Laurence
Fouweather To: [log in to unmask]
<l.fouweather@OX cc: (bcc: Luke Bennett/Learn/GNL)
ACT.COM> Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
Sent by: Virtual
Learning
Environments
<[log in to unmask]
.UK>
08/06/2005 15:47
Please respond
to Virtual
Learning
Environments
<[log in to unmask]
.UK>
Re Scalability - its not just the hardware speed/ram size etc that affects
how scaleable a product is - eventually (depending on the OS) the system
will simply run out of steam. This is due to the way the software is put
together and how it handles multiple threads etc.
This is why for large scale transaction processing systems ( which is what
some VLE's are these days- look at what some of the large US State
Universities are doing - 20,000+ users are not unusual) many organisations
use systems that distribute the load across applications and database
servers running things like ORACLE and SQL Server with load balancing
rather
than MySQL.
I really like MySQL but would not dream of using it for an application with
1000's of users. As far as I know a multiple server set up to provide one
virtual system is not yet possible with Moodle - (which I also like - but
only for the right size and scope of environment)
What is important I think, is to define what you are trying to achieve,
size
the specification and plan for rapid growth, look at all the possible
solutions, carefully look at ALL the costs of ownership and not just the
capital costs, then make a choice which is the closest fit to your
particular application and organisation.
Whether it is open source or not must of course be factored in - but with a
very careful look at the costs and benefits involved - don't forget
existing
staff still cost money unless they are all working for the love of it!
Laurence
Laurence Fouweather
Director
Oxford Academic Technology Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)1865 451 670
Mobile +44 (0)7968 692 380
Fax +44 (0)7813 889 526
Web www.oxact.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
Of
Luke Bennett, Production Manager, The Guardian Learnthings
Sent: 08 June 2005 14:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
Hi
I can not comment directly on the scalability of Moodle the biggest factors
are the speed of the processors of machine installed, the amount of memory
and the speed of disk access and network bandwidth. MySql is a enterprise
class platform and much OS software is used by large commercial
organisations, for example MySql for NLN/Becta/Granada Learning CAT service
at the JISC National Computer Centre at Manchester Computing,
http://nln.mimas.ac.uk. The BBC use Apache over Linux, interestingly if you
vist http://www.netcraft.com/ you can discover what people are running.
Are you aware of what IBM are running? It is interesting that Novel, widely
used in HE education has recently made Linux acquisitions for server and
desktop and plans to offer migration paths from Netware. I feel the bit we
are trying to get our head around is the fact that 'its free'. The fact is
people build OS software because they can:
1. Earn a living doing what they are passionate about 2. Be part of
something much bigger 3, The web has allowed anyone to compete in the
market
place without the traditional costs associated with launching and marketing
a product.
Yes we need to know what's scalable, try and get specifications or
testimonials from leading commercial suppliers. Consider that Hull use an
implementation of uPortal, on a modest box which is capable of handling
large amounts of traffic. To get things up and running this community is a
great place to start as someone out there has often done it and is willing
to share their experience.
Luke Bennett
The Guardian, Learnthings
Production Manager
www.learnpremium.co.uk
5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
London EC1M 3JU
Mobile: 07977 059 183
|---------+-------------------------------------------->
| | Stuart Lee |
| | <[log in to unmask]
| | FORD.AC.UK> |
| | Sent by: Virtual Learning |
| | Environments <[log in to unmask]>|
| | |
| | |
| | 08/06/2005 12:47 |
| | Please respond to Virtual |
| | Learning Environments |
| | <[log in to unmask]> |
| | |
|---------+-------------------------------------------->
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------|
|
|
| To: [log in to unmask]
|
| cc: (bcc: Luke Bennett/Learn/GNL)
|
| Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
|
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------|
Tim,
You are correct in identifying the issue but one must defend the use of
free. If a shop gives you a new burglar alarm system without asking for any
money (i.e. all you had to do was go in and pick it up) you would, I
suggest, happily define it as free, even though it may take you time to
attach it to your house and test it. In this sense of the word Moodle *is*
free.
However, as you rightly point out everything comes with a cost. Yet there
are ways of reducing that cost with open source products, which in my
opinion are not open to you with a commercial product.
I can't comment on the ease of installing Moodle but from what I have heard
most people say it is straightforward enough. I'd be interested in knowing
how people find the scalability of it. Are people confident that it can
cope
with large numbers of users, and that PHP is a robust/secure enough for a
large enterprise system? I don't have an opinion either way but just
interested to hear what people think,
Stuart
***************************************************************************
Dr Stuart D Lee | Head of the Learning Technologies
Oxford University Computing | Group (http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/)
Services |
13 Banbury Road | Member of the English Faculty
Oxford OX2 6NN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
E-mail: [log in to unmask]; Tel: +44 1865 283403; Fax: +44 1865
273275; URL: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~stuart/
Bodington VLE/LMS (Free): http://www.bodington.org.uk/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Harrison Tim (Staff) wrote:
> Could we please stop referring to moodle as a 'free' system. It is not
> and never will be. As has been mentioned dozens of times before, the
> cost of implementing a vle is not just the software, it includes the
> training and all the other bits that go into it. The same is true of
> LAMS.
>
> I found moodle very difficult to install not because of moodle itself
> but because of the other software it required, php and mysql. Getting
> the right versions to talk with the software can be very fiddly,
> particularly if you want to use Windows. I was very much left with the
> impression that upgrades etc would be totally dependant on other
> factors that I am simply not prepared to use it. I am also very
> concerned that, for a mission critical system, not having any redress
> against the writers or guaranteed maintenance is not acceptable.
>
> Tim Harrison
> Colchester SFC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Luke Bennett, Production Manager, The Guardian Learnthings
> Sent: 08 June 2005 10:35
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
>
> Hi Andy
>
> That is a good point well made, importing 1600 Content Packages is a
> drag!
> What will happen if NLN Materials are repurposed and released to other
> sectors, like schools. MOODLELAMS will provide HE/FE/Schools and ACL a
> free to use turn-key solution. To make this bullet proof the best way
> to deliver content would be through a web service, where content is
> pushed to learning systems. We are too reliant on mundane jobs that
> are difficult to manage, we need to offer systems that let people
> concentrate on the learning and how they use content. Will the JORUM
> National Repository offer a web service to surface content? Such a
> service would change the face of e-learning.
>
> Luke Bennett
>
> The Guardian, Learnthings
> Production Manager
> www.learnpremium.co.uk
>
> 5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
> London EC1M 3JU
>
> Mobile: 07977 059 183
>
>
>
>
>
> Andrew Dudfield
>
> <andrew.dudfield@BE To:
> [log in to unmask]
>
> CTA.ORG.UK> cc: (bcc: Luke
> Bennett/Learn/GNL)
> Sent by: Virtual Subject: Re: [VLES]
> MOODLE with LAMS
> Learning
>
> Environments
>
> <[log in to unmask]
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> 08/06/2005 10:08
>
> Please respond to
>
> Virtual Learning
>
> Environments
>
> <[log in to unmask]
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to agree with the comments Luke made here. I see point one (the
> bulk import of content packages) to be hugely important. We here at
> the NLN have produced 1600 packages, and it is hugely frustrating for
> our users to have to import (and then classify and assign) the
> packages one by one.
>
> I believe that with a more general/standardised adoption of metadata,
> even at quite a low level, the materials could be imported as a batch
> process. Surely one of the reasons why a XML manifest based content
> production method is used by a lot of people in the first place is the
> power and flexibility of automatic process?
>
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Bennett, Production Manager, The Guardian Learnthings
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 08 June 2005 09:48
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
>
> Hi All
>
> Moodle and LAMS integration will have a massive impact on the
> landscape of the VLE marketplace. Commercial VLE providers will have
> to revisit their systems. Three things that would add significant
> value to the offering would be:
>
> 1. Bulk import of IMS Content Packages 2. Out the box integration with
> Windows Active Directory 3. Search functionality based on IMS metadata
>
> Does anybody in the community know if any of the above are in the
> making?
> Since a Colossus is in the making why not make the order taller?
>
>
> Luke Bennett
>
> The Guardian, Learnthings
> Production Manager
> www.learnpremium.co.uk
>
> 5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
> London EC1M 3JU
>
> Mobile: 07977 059 183
>
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