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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture On this vein, I wonder whether the liturgical experts can tell us briefly about a lurking inkling I have about the fairly peaceful reception in England of the post-Reformation liturgy: It seems, from some discussions on the list, that the Book of Common Prayer, while being in the vernacular and, presumably, avoiding transubstantiation, was fairly close to the Use of Sarum. How different was the Tridentine Mass? And, if it was different, might this go some way towards explaining why the majority found it easier to accept the BCP? If the Tridentine mass was 'new', one would have had to have been a dedicated papist to prefer it to what was familiar? Am I talking rubbish or has something like this been said, by experts, a thousand times before? many thanks Rosemary Hayes ----- Original Message ----- From: Madeleine Gray To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [M-R] Granum benedictum? medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Chris Laning said I can't help wondering how many people, born and raised in the "old religion" but having become Anglicans after the break with Rome, continued to absent-mindedly make the sign of the cross upon hearing of someone's death, for instance. I've noticed it takes a bit of conscious effort to remember _not_ to make the sign of the cross at the end of a prayer when I'm in a context where I don't want to do so. In Wales (and I would imagine in many other areas) the transition was not so simple - in out-of-the-way areas many people just continued in the old way. As late as 1567 the bishop of Bangor, Nicholas Robinson, complained that in his diocese there were 'images and altars standing in the churches undefaced, lewd and indecent vigils and watches observed, much pilgrimage-going, many candles set up to the honour of the saints, some relics yet carried about, and all the country full of beads and knots'. (This is from Bulletin of the Board of Celtic Studies 6, 1933). And in the 1620s I have seen a reference to a Carmarthenshire clergyman unable to prevent his congregation from using rosaries. Not that this throws any direct light on signing with the cross: but if they went on using rosaries and relics they probably saw nothing wrong in using the sign of the cross as well. The point is that this is not defiant recusancy but simply natural behaviour by a large number of people. Maddy Dr Madeleine Gray, in the foothills of God's golden county of Gwent University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd School of Humanities & Science/Ysgol y Dyniaethau a'r Gwyddorau Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion, PO /Blwch Post 179 Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3YG, Wales/Cymru Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675 'Even big collections of ordinary books distort space and time, as can readily be proved by anyone who has been around a really old-fashioned second-hand bookshop'. History at University of Wales, Newport: http://timezone.newport.ac.uk Gwent County History Association website: http://gwent-county-history-association.newport.ac.uk Cistercian Way: http://cistercian-way.newport.ac.uk ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html