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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

By now it should not surprise you that I over react.  Fortunately, or not, I can
use PTSD as an excuse.  Okay, "Vulgate" and "Septuagint" may remain in use.
However, I will continually ask just exactly what is meant when such terms are
used.  'Which Septuagint?' is I believe an appropriate response to a statement
which includes, 'the Septuagint...'  As will, 'what do mean when you say
"Vulgate"?  And I will do this because I still feel, "Vulgate" and "Septuagint"
by their singularity imply a homogeneity which does not exist.

--V. K. Inman

Quoting Robert Kraft <[log in to unmask]>:

> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Talk about over-reaction! As a grad student, I once suggested that perhaps
> "eschatology" needed a rest. I was wrong. It just needed closer definition
> for
> specific uses.
>
> "Vulgate" as the abstract concept of the Latin Bible Jerome produced for his
> sponsor(s)  makes sense, as does "Septuagint" for the supposed efforts of
> Ptolemy's
> supposed group of 72 translators of the Hebrew Pentateuch. That neither
> ideal
> entity exists, or perhaps ever existed beyond the idealized original, does
> not
> render the terms meaningless. But as VK preaches (partly blaming me), let's
> be
> clear what we mean by the terms.
>
> While there never was an original and homogeneous "the Septuagint Bible" in
> the
> broad sense of an ancient Greek biblical translation/edition (of course by
> the 4th
> century CE, such an anthology had been compiled and came to be dubbed "the
> Septuagint," in its various forms), and there never was an "Old Latin (Itala,
> Vetus
> Latina) Bible" in the same sense (although Latin translations of various
> biblical
> books were produced by various people in various times and places prior to
> Jerome,
> and these materials may also have been collected into a Latin biblical
> anthology by
> the 4th century -- what was Jerome commissioned to replace/correct?), there
> apparently was a selfconsciously homogeneous edition/translation of it all
> produced
> by Jerome around the start of the 5th century, "the Vulgate."
>
> I know, I know. What about the Psalter, for which Jerome did at least two
> editions.
> Are they both "Vulgate"? My edition of the Latin Bible (Old Vulgate) has the
> Iuxta
> Hebraica Psalter as an appendix, so in that sense, yes (or maybe yes minus).
> But
> that's what footnotes and careful definitions (and attention to context) are
> for,
> nicht wahr?
>
> RAK
>
> > Okay. I vote for scrapping both "Vulgate" and "Septuagint" as meaningless
> words
> > in a scholarly world.
> >
> > --V. K.
> >
> > Quoting John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>:
> >
> > > > I think "Vulgate" very probably is meaningless.  Restricting it to
> > "Jerome's
> > > translation" is probably hopeless, especially as that probably wasn't
> > > exactly what anyone in the Middle Ages actually had in front of them.
> The
> > > "Stuttgart Vulgate" seeks to reproduce precisely what Jerome wrote, but
> as
> > > changes set in almost immediately, the usefulness of that edition isn't
> > > readily obvious.  I would much prefer to have a 'typical Medieval
> Vulgate' -
> > > whatever that might be!  (Incidentally, nearly all copies of "The
> Vulgate"
> > > loose on the internet are defective copies of the Stuttgart Vulgate.)
> Even
> > > the "Clementine Vulgate" underwent changes - particularly in the 20th
> > > century!  The existence of a "Nova Vulgata" suggests that the
> unqualified
> > > use of the word "Vulgate" is unwise.  (There isn't a single Old Latin
> > > version either, and seeing that Jerome was revising one or more of them,
> and
> > > didn't finish the task because he got interested in Hebrew ... )
> > >
> > > John Briggs
> > >
> > >
> >
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>
>
>
> --
> Robert A. Kraft, Religious Studies, University of Pennsylvania
> 227 Logan Hall (Philadelphia PA 19104-6304); tel. 215 898-5827
> [log in to unmask]
> http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/rak/kraft.html
>
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