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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I am sorry to jump into the discussion so late, but on the West Coast, when I read my mail, it was morning and some of us were still caffeinating. Without responding to the all of the issues raised here, I would at least argue that first of all, the church(es) of the Middle Ages were quite diverse. There were at least two quite different forms of church polity particularly before and after the reforms of the eleventh century consolidated at Lateran IV. So, secondly, these churches were not "Catholic" in the sense that "Roman Catholic" is used now. Late medieval Christianity was the origin out of which all of Western Christianity emerged. This is not a new point, of course. I as well as others have written on the subject often enough. However the point is worth repeating because from this perspective, there are no longer any late medieval Christians. Certainly the church that emerged from Trent and became Roman Catholicism is no more "medieval" than some other Western Christian groups. Therefore explaining late medieval Western Christianity should not be seen as necessarily "defending" or "attacking" any present Christian group. The identification of Roman Catholicism as it came to exist after Trent with the "medieval Church" (as if that were somehow an identifiable unity) was a political move of some complexity, but one of very questionable historical value. From this perspective, the medieval inquisitions, for example, were not "Roman Catholic" nor was the rise of the universities . On May 7, 2004, at 6:05 AM, [log in to unmask] wrote: > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and > culture > > Good morning, Cate! > > You asked: > >> A number of members of this list are clearly practising Catholics - >> how >> difficult is it to achieve objectivity when teaching the development >> and >> history of Catholicism? > > You were bound to "out" me, sooner or later, I suppose. > Actually, I'm not a practicing Roman Catholic. I'm > Lutheran. > > That said, in regard to your question, are you really sure > you want to try? In the situation of which I wrote earlier, > I found it much easier simply to tell the truth. In similar > situations since, I've found that a good rule to follow. > > I've no idea what your religious proclivities are, and they > are your own business to do with as you please. However, > mine -- along with other long held beliefs (e.g. We are not > all merely "brains in a vat"; my senses give me at least > some apperception of what in the world is going on; etc.) -- > colour the way I teach. Where they entered into the > subject under debate, e.g. abortion on demand, I stated > at the beginning of the discussion what my conviction was > while asking my students to do the same. They did, > generally with temperence, knowledge, and gusto. > > When you begin a course and explain to the students what > they can expect from you and what you expect from them, > can you be comfortable telling them your feelings and > beliefs at the outset while reassuring them that you wish to > and will try to treat all of them fairly? Yes, you will quickly > discover some who strongly disagree with you. (For ANY given > position, there is at least one person who disagrees with it. [He > will probably attend the class where that position is taught.]) > So what historical data can the dissenter gather to support > his position? Can you assist him in his search? The smart > money says you in fact can. Yet, in the process, he may > come to see that hard facts resist his attempts at manipulation > and that past events are subject to a variety of understandings, > some more plausable than others. > > For example, did the stripping of the altars produce any positive > effects? Arguably, yes. Was it entirely successful? Clearly, on > the basis of the statement of goals by the strippers and subsequent > history, no. (In general, Lutherans didn't play the stripping game. > Comparison here might be interesting [and unwieldy]). > > I've blathered on here at great length, subjugating a massive > number of innocent electrons in the process. I laud you for > taking on the task of teaching this subject to mature students. > In writing a paper on it, you display far more guts than I have. > Good luck on your presentation. > > > Regards to all, > Frank > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > > Gary Macy, Ph.D. Professor Department of Theology and Religious Studies Associate Director of the Center for the Study of Latino/a Catholicism University of San Diego 5998 Alcalá Park San Diego, CA 92110 619-260-4053 ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html