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Yes, I'm getting the picture that librarians are interpreting Subject as being as broad as it is in LCSH; again, that is not the way Subject was intended by the dc crew (at least judging from my experience attending a couple of these meetings). The reason that Coverage became an element was because: - the definition given for Subject was understood not to include geographic area or time periods And the reason Type and Format came to the fore is because again Subject was understood not to include form/genre terms. That is, "topical" = "thematic," and not anything else. When you look at Coverage, the dc-lite version is always a word. The item is indeed 'about' that geographic area - that is, it is a subject heading in the broad scope of LCSH. And as per your earlier message - what i figured Rebecca intended for Coverage -place was: marc 651|a marc all other 6xx's |z and correspondingly for Coverage - time: marc 6xx|y (?can you start a subject heading with a time period? in that case the first field would be |a) At 01:33 PM 6/12/00 -0700, Mary Woodley wrote: >Mary, > > I think that the next edition of the User Guide should make this > explicit. I am a member of the User Guide committee and the new edition > of the guide is awaiting the final decisions on the interoperability > qualifiers. > > Currently, I think there is confusion concerning the geographic place as > part of a subject string. Adding to the confusion is the fact that some > implementations of DC, like CIMI, have add both topical and geographic to > both elements. > >4.3 Subject from the current User guide does not show a geographic heading >and does only show “topical” terms. However, “Place” can be topical and >there are LCSH headings that do not provide an adjectival qualifier to >terms but rely on the $z for the geographic aspect.. > > I must admit, I did not assume from the guide that the geographic aspect > of the topic could not be added. The fact that LCSH is not included as an > Encoding scheme for Coverage but is an Encoding Scheme for Subject, > argues that the geographic aspect should be included in the Subject > Field. I think it would aid searching interoperability if all the > components of the LCSH string are included when searching multiple > databases that use LCSH: > >Qualifiers for 'Subject': > > Encoding Schemes: > LCSH > MeSH > DDC > LCC > UDC > >Qualifiers for 'Coverage': > > Element Refinements: > Place > Time > > Encoding Schemes: > DCMI Point (place) > ISO3166 (place) > DCMI Box (place) > TGN (place) > DCMI Period (time) > W3C-DTF (time) > > >This is from the LC crosswalk for MARC and DC from the LC site: ><http://lcweb.loc.gov/marc/dccross.html>http://lcweb.loc.gov/marc/dccross.html > >Note that 651 is included but not the 650 $z - However 650 $x is not >included either. I know that Rebecca wants to update it. > >MARC 21: > >Unqualified: > > 653 ##$a (Index Term--Uncontrolled) > >Qualified: > > Subject.Geographic: 651 #7$a (Subject >Added Entry--Geographic Name) >with $2=local (or other scheme as specified) > Subject.PersonalName: 600 17$a (Subject >Added Entry--Personal Name) >with $2=local (or other scheme as specified) > Subject.CorporateName: 610 27$a (Subject >Added Entry--Corporate >Name) with $2=local (or other scheme as specified) > Subject.ConferenceName: 611 27 (Subject >Added Entry--Conference >Name) with $2=local (or other scheme as specified) > Scheme=LCSH: 650 #0$a (Subject added >entry--Topical term) > Scheme=LCC: 050 ##$a (Library of Congress >Call >Number/Classification number) > Scheme=DDC: 082 ##$a (Dewey Decimal Call >Number/Classification >number) > Scheme=(other): 650 #7$a with $2=code from >MARC Code List for >Relators, Sources, Description Conventions > > > > >Mary Larsgaard wrote: >>I see your point, but that is not the way the Coverage >>and Subject are defined; instead, Coverage notes that recommended >>practice is to use words rather than numbers.: >>"Element: Coverage >> Comment: Coverage will typically include spatial location >>(a place name >> or geographic coordinates), temporal period (a >>period label, >> date, or date range) or jurisdiction (such as a >> named >> administrative entity). >> Recommended best practice is to select a value >> from a >> controlled vocabulary (for example, the Thesaurus >>of Geographic >> Names [TGN]) and that, where appropriate, named >>places or time >> periods be used in preference to numeric >>identifiers such as >> sets of coordinates or date ranges." >>and Subject notes that it is to be used for "topic of content." >> >>Mary >> >>At 06:16 PM 6/9/00 +0200, Yves Crevoisier wrote: >> >Hi Mary and Alejandro, >> > >> >I'm interested about the debate and I don't know exactly what means >> FAST. But >> >it seems me that we are speaking about "faceted classification" >> >(classification >> >à facettes). Perhaps that coverage is intented to use such complex and >> >codified >> >schemas, but now only for spatial or temporal data. To be pragmatic I >> think >> >that "coverage" is useful to use very codified and machine readable >> >classification, and "subject" for human readable controlled indexing >> >vocabulary. >> > >> >Perhaps you find more information in : >> > >> ><http://www.govst.edu/users/gddcasey/sac/MetadataReport.html>http://www. >> govst.edu/users/gddcasey/sac/MetadataReport.html >> > >> > >> >Mary Larsgaard wrote: >> > >> > > Web site for FAST, please? Obviously I lead >> > > a sheltered life, because I've never heard of it. >> > > >> > > At 12:49 PM 6/8/00 -0500, Alejandro Garza González wrote: >> > > >I think FAST (Faceted Assignment of Subject Terminology) has >> touched on >> > > >this.. anyone car to comment? >> > > > >> > > >-----Mensaje original----- >> > > >De: Stina Degerstedt <[log in to unmask]> >> > > >Para: dc-libraries <[log in to unmask]> >> > > >Fecha: Jueves, 08 de Junio de 2000 04:11 a.m. >> > > >Asunto: Subject vs. Coverage? >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >Hello! >> > > > > >> > > > >I have a question concerning the usage of DC.SUBJECT as apposed to >> > > > >DC.COVERAGE: >> > > > > >> > > > >The Royal Library runs a subject heading list which is used by many >> > > > >Swedish libraries. The list contains of both single terms and >> > > > >pre-coordinated terms for general use. It is also >> > > > >possible to add a geographical name or a time aspect to the terms >> > > > >(according to our guidelines). >> > > > >Example: 'Byggnader - arkitektur - Sverige - 1900-talet' (= >> Buildings - >> > > > >architecture - Sweden - 20th century). >> > > > > >> > > > >This subject list is freely available on Internet (as a database - >> > > > >adress, se below) and ment to be a tool for describing both printed >> > > > >material and electronic resources. We also plan to add an English >> > > > >translation of the terms in order to gain greater >> interoperability with >> > > > >other systems. >> > > > > >> > > > >Now to the point: We are just now discussing the relationship >> between >> > > > >the dc elements of Subject and Coverage when it comes to place >> names and >> > > > >time. Which is the "best" element for place names? Should we >> double the >> > > > >information? Are pre-coordinated subject headings only for >> librarians >> > > > >while "ordinary people" prefer a combination of single terms in both >> > > > >Subject and in Coverage? >> > > > >We are very much interested to learn if there have been any previous >> > > > >discussions in these matters. We would also be much greatful if >> those of >> > > > >you who use subject headings similar to ours could tell us about >> your >> > > > >praxis and experiences when working with Dublin Core. >> > > > > >> > > > >Adress to "Svenska ämnesord" (only in Swedish): >> > > > ><http://www.amnesord.kb.se/>http://www.amnesord.kb.se/ >> > > > > >> > > > >Kindly, >> > > > > >> > > > >Stina >> > > > > >> > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > >Stina Degerstedt >> > > > >Enheten för bibliografisk utveckling och samordning (BUS) >> > > > >- Division for Bibliographic Development and Co-ordination >> > > > >Kungl. biblioteket - Royal Library - National Library of Sweden >> > > > >Post adress: Box 5039, S-102 41 Stockholm, Sweden >> > > > >Telephone: +46 8 463 42 42, Fax: +46 8 463 42 25 >> > > > >Mail to: [log in to unmask] >> > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > > ______________________________________ >> > > >> > > Mary Lynette Larsgaard >> > > Assistant Head, Map and Imagery Laboratory >> > > Davidson Library >> > > University of California, Santa Barbara >> > > Santa Barbara CA 93106 >> > > telephone: 805/893-4049 >> > > fax: 805/893-8799 >> > > email: [log in to unmask] >> > > ______________________________________ >> > >> >-- >> >Yves Crevoisier >> >Bibliothécaire-responsable >> > >> >Tel. ++41 22 705 70 81 >> >E-mail : [log in to unmask] >> > >> >Adresse postale/postal address : >> > >> >Lettres/letters : >> > >> >Bibliothèque d'histoire générale >> >Faculté des Lettres >> >Université de Genève >> >Case postale >> >1211 Genève 4 >> >Suisse >> > >> >Paquets/parcels : >> > >> >Bibliothèque d'histoire générale >> >Faculté des Lettres >> >Université de Genève >> >Place de l'Université 3 >> >1205 Genève >> >Suisse >> > >> >>______________________________________ >> >>Mary Lynette Larsgaard >>Assistant Head, Map and Imagery Laboratory >>Davidson Library >>University of California, Santa Barbara >>Santa Barbara CA 93106 >>telephone: 805/893-4049 >>fax: 805/893-8799 >>email: [log in to unmask] >>______________________________________ > >-- >********************************************************* >Mary S. Woodley, Ph.D. >Social Sciences Librarian >California State University, Northridge >Northridge CA 91330-8328 >[log in to unmask] >voice (818) 677-2261 fax: (818) 677-4928 >********************************************************* > ______________________________________ Mary Lynette Larsgaard Assistant Head, Map and Imagery Laboratory Davidson Library University of California, Santa Barbara Santa Barbara CA 93106 telephone: 805/893-4049 fax: 805/893-8799 email: [log in to unmask] ______________________________________