Dear Henry, Julia et alia,
>Surely Hodierna (hodiernus/a/um) is the adjective from Hodie? It occurs
occasionally as a given name for women in the 12th c.
No one here is more onomonastically challenged than I, particularly in
anthroponominiaical matters, *however*, my limited, _ad hoc_ and
haphazard experience with things chartularical sugests to me that this
intuitive supposition would only be true *if* the name were of Latin origin
originally, as it were.
(And I expect to be brought up short with a corrective if *my*
supposition is not the case).
The names (people or places) which appear in Latin texts (charters or
narratives) in this period are clerical
transcriptions/translations/transpositions/whatever of vernacular (O.F., O.E.,
etc.) forms into the language of the written word (Latin).
Thus, "Hildulph's farm" (or it's O.F. equivalent) became an elegant
"_Hildulphi Villa_" in an 1028 document; _Hondervilla_ in c. 1250;
_Heudrevilla_ in 1300; and in 1736 arrived (in writing) at its present
(Also, this is a typical example of one way a "personal" name becomes
incorporated into a "place" name.)
Your etymology starts from the Latin, which is, to my mind at least,
As Isadore of Saville (Texas), one of the major patrons of this list, would
Dave Postles' find (Monique Bourin and Pascal Chareille, _Genese
Medievale de l'Anthroponymie Moderne Tome II-2 Persistences du Nom
Unique. Designation et anthroponymie des femmes ...) puts me in mind of a c.
1970 French 2 vol. reference work on name-forms which I thought enough of to
photocopy a few years ago but cannot lay hands on nor find in my U. library's
catalogue at present.
The thing was *really* good, as I recall.
And getting better with each moment that passes that I can't find it.
In any event, checking the old standby, Egger's _Lexicon Nominum Virorum et
Mulierum_ (Rome, 1963) drew a blank for Hod-/Odierna.
>….Hodiern also occurs as a "scribal error" (?) for bishop Gonotiernus in the
episcopal lists for Senlis (Duchesne, "Fastes...").
is of interest, I believe, as another example of the use of the "element"
(correct term?) "*tiern-" (or: "*iern*??).
I don't have acces to Duchesne, and Chevalier's (_Repetoire des sources
du moyen age: Bio-Bibliographie_) common but no less obnoxious habit of
translating every Latin name into (what he takes to be) its modern French
equivalent keeps me from easily finding out for sure, but the archaic sound of
the name "Gonotiernus" leads me to think that this is a Merovingian fellow,
which means that his name *might* be on a surviving *original* of that era,
but *probably* not, Merovinginian originals being somewhat scarce.
Meaning that it may only survive in later copies.
Or copies of copies.
I.e., there were plenty of opportunities for piling error upon error; which
looks like what must have happened to get from "Gonot-" to "Hod-".
John Parsons' review of the Hodiernas of the royal house of Jerusalem would
seem to demonstrate (if any demonstration were needed) the very common
practice of names--and/or name elements--being passed down in a family for
generations (as part of the so-called _namenguten_ of the family), in this
case with my "Hodierna of Gometz" seeming to be the (documentable) source of
Thank you, John.
>…K. Baldwin II was, maternally, the grandson of Guy I, lord of Bray and
Montlhery in the Parisis (fl. 1071) by Hodierna, lady of la Ferte'-Gometz (or
Gaumetz) and of Bures....>
That would be, I believe: "la Ferte'-Alais [modern name; East of
Best to all from here,
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