What I find a bit problematic the term 'British' (as much as Sara Champion
finds 'Celt' a problem). Could you please tell us what you mean by that? I
want to know if I stand accused...

Cheers,

James.






-----Original Message-----
From: John Hooker <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 24 May 1999 05:57
Subject: Re: catching up with 'celtic' threads...


>"s.t.champion" wrote:
>>
>> well, go off-line for a couple of months, and what do you find when you
>> catch up with the archives but a whole series of threads about 'celts'.
>>
>> but blimey, i though this one had died a death decades ago:
>>
>
>Perhaps you are less informed than you thought.
>
>> even when i was writing my dphil 20 years ago (on aspects of late
hallstatt
>> and early la tene in central and western europe) the concept of westward
>> riding horsemen bringing 'celts' to central europe was under severe
>> criticism by many,
>
>I'm not surprised -- it was the horses that brought the Celts.
>Seriously, twenty years ago there was far less attention paid to
>collaborative disciplines such as mythology, iconography, careful
>art historical analysis, literature, lore, psychology and more. There
>were fewer artifacts and coins, as metal detectors were scarcer and
>private collector/scholars were almost non-existent in this subject.
>Happily, those days are over, although political motives are keeping
>that particular attitude alive.
>
>When I first started to publish my views, I received many letters of
>thanks from people in Celtic countries and regions. It puzzled me at
>first, but I soon realized that they had been diminished by a number
>of British archaeologists who felt the need to define their culture
>and heritage.
>
>When I examined some of the evidence, especially the selective
>citations from classical writers, I realized that I was seeing a
>rather typical (and unimaginative) attempt at disinformation. You see,
>about thirty years ago, I was in that "business". I am not
>particularly
>proud of that, but a colleague and myself not only got out of it, but
>we turned over all of our information to the RCMP security service
>here in Canada. I also did a little voluntary anti-terrorist work for
>them, perhaps to ease my conscience -- but it saved property, and
>perhaps a few lives.
>
>> and the archaeological data available then and collected
>> since simply doesn't support an influx of a new 'people' at this time,
let
>> alone a single person who could be "confidently identified" as a 'celt'
>> (whatever that means...).
>
>This is why I mentioned my previous experience. I hope that you are
>parroting something that you heard, because there are two rather
>disturbing signals in that statement. The first is the use of the "no
>evidence to support" chestnut. We used this thirty years ago, but a
>few yellow journalists of the tabloid variety still try it out once in
>a while. No scientist would ever use a fact of no evidence to
>establish anything. It is not only reprehensible, but it is a logical
>fallacy. Its only use today (that I am aware of) is for
>disinformation, but better techniques are more commonly used.
>
>The other signal is displayed by: "celt" (whatever that means...).
>This
>negates those people who identify themselves as being Celtic and is
>contra to the UN charter on genocide. Britain has a very long history
>of genocide when it comes to Celtic peoples, and to condone this
>odious statement would also violate that UN charter.
>
>Funnily enough, there is evidence to support my claims, but most of
>this relies on a modern, interdisciplinary approach to the subject. It
>would be absurd to try and present it all in email, but I suppose you
>might research the cult of Zeus in Dodona for a start, and then look
>to the classical authors more thoroughly for accounts of Celtic
>culture.
>
>Many of the British claims that there were no Celts in
>Britain, and that Celts and Gauls were somehow different, is so
>totally
>absurd to anyone familiar with Celtic numismatics that we wonder how
>anyone could believe it for a second. I am very suspicious of the
>politics of any numismatist who would make that claim, but ignorance
>might be claimed.
>
>> it would take a long and no doubt boring email to deconstruct this short
>> assertion, so i'll try to confine my comments to a few questions:
>>
>> how would you 'identify' a celt - what do you mean by 'celt' in this
>> context?  someone who spoke a 'celtic' language?  absolutely no evidence
for
>> this in the 8-7th centuries bc
>
>This is obvious disinformation. What evidence is there for ANY
>language in northern Europe at that time? and once again you are being
>unscientific and illogical.
>
>> a bearer of 'celtic culture'?  what would this mean?  where is this in
the
>> archaeology?  how do you explain continuity in the archaeological record
>> both during the late hallstatt period and through into la tene? (these
>> period/'culture' divisions are, of course, earlier archaeological
constructs
>> and are only used as shorthand in this context)
>
>Archaeology is not a science. You must, by necessity, deal only with a
>very tiny sample of what existed, too small to be statistically
>significant, in most cases. One example is Jacobsthal, who records
>only two
>decorated Celtic artifacts from Brittany. This from an area where
>hundreds of thousands of people lived at the time. I know of more than
>fifty thousand Celtic coins from the region, though. So the "no
>evidence" nonsense is exploded.
>
>The rest of your argument is hardly worth bothering with. If you can
>provide any evidence that there were no Celts, we could discuss it.
>But you seem to be ignorant of the nature of the Celts as discussed
>even by the classical authors, let alone the considerable mythological
>evidence.
>
>Are you unaware of the fact that they were often a minority and never
>fully replaced the indigenous populations? Why do you suppose that
>their deities had vast numbers of regional identities? Are you
>familiar with syncretism? have you never tracked any of the movements
>of Celtic styles through Europe? have you never studied Celtic
>numismatics?
>
>The usual defence of the "anti-Celts" is to scoff, ignore any
>arguments, and finally, when it looks like they are going to be pinned
>down, retreat into silence. I have seen colleagues hounded, terrorized
>and even silenced by people like yourself -- one important writer has
>stopped
>completely. The voices get quieter -- rather like the nuns singing in
>the Dialogues des Carmelites by Poulenc -- the guillotine falls, over
>and over, and each time, one less voice is heard.
>
>It is intellectual terrorism.
>
>John Hooker
>
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