JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  April 1999

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION April 1999

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

(Fwd) Re: Non-Christian religions

From:

"Morgyn Wagner" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:57:21 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (128 lines)

Sorry all, I should have forwarded Bill's original with my message.

Thanks,
Morgyn

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date:          Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:27:33 GMT
Subject:       Re: Non-Christian religions
From:          Bill East <[log in to unmask]>
To:            [log in to unmask]
Reply-to:      [log in to unmask]

It may be helpful to inject into the discussion the notion of "Virtue".  I
do not mean Virtue in the reduced sense of a moral quality, such as courage
or patience, but in older senses which are defined as follows in the Shorter
Oxford Dictionary:

VIRTUE  I. as a personal attribute.  1a.  The power or operative influence
inherent in a supernatural or divine being . . . II.  As a quality of
things.  7a.  Of a precious stone:  magical or supernatural power, esp. in
the prevention or cure of a disease etc.

Virtue is conceived of as a supernatural power, in its most intense form
quite tangible, and inherent in holy people and things.  It is communicable
by contact, quite as readily as, in modern terms, a magnetic or electric charge.

The notion is perfectly scriptural.  We find it perhaps at 2 Samuel 6:6-7,
"And . . . Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it .
. . And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah . . . and God smote
him . . . and there he died."

More indisputably, we find it as a quality inhering in Jesus, in the story
of the woman who touched the hem of Jesus' garment at Mark 5:27ff:

"For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.  And
straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up;  and she felt in her
body that she was healed of that plague.  And Jesus, immediately knowing in
himself that VIRTUE had gone out of him . . ." [So KJV;  Douai, "And
immediately Jesus, knowing in himself the VIRTUE that had proceeded from him
. . .";  Vulgate "gognoscens VIRTUTEM quae exierat de illo"].

Virtue then is a power residing in a holy person, living or dead.  This is
the rationale behind the cult of relics.  The humerus of St Lawrence,
preserved so reverently at Ampleforth, is an object replete with Virtue, a
very powerful force for curing the sick, casting out demons, raising the
dead, building up faith or whatever good purpose is required.  Thus we find
in 2 Kings 20-21,

"And Elisha died, and they buried him . . .  And they cast [a corpse] into
the sepulchre of Elisha:  and when the man was let down, and touched the
bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet."

Virtue can be communicated to any object, animate or inanimate.  The ground
on which a saint has walked is charged with Virtue.  Soil from the Holy Land
is replete with Virtue.  The other day I was visiting a parishioner who had
received a greeting card from the Holy Land.  The lettering was raised by
embossing, and a message in smaller print informed her that the raised
lettering had touched the earth of the Holy Land.  This made a great
impression on my parishioner.  I thought it best not to inform her that her
priest had sunbathed on the Holy Land and swum in the River Jordan.  Her
devotion to my skin might have become excessive.

Elisha sends his servant Gehazi to lay his staff on the corpse of the child
of the Shunemite (2 Kings 4:29 ff).  The expectation is that the staff will
be sufficiently charged with Virtue to raise the child to life.  In the
event, it doesn't work, and Elisha has to do the job himself.

Even so intangible and immaterial an object as a shadow can possess Virtue.
So we find at Acts 5:15,

"Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them
on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might
overshadow some of them."

A saint's clothing, or any of his possessions, will be charged with Virtue.
So will the ground of his grave, or any object (e.g. a handkerchief) which
has touched it.  

Objects charged with Virtue were often dipped into water, and the water
drunk or rubbed on affected parts.  Thus, the hand of St James at Reading
Abbey was dipped into water,  which was then drunk by the faithful.  This
water had powerful emetic properties, and the cure was usually accompanied
by violent vomiting.  Likewise the hair-breeches (femoralia) of St Thomas
Becket, reputed to have been darned by the Blessed Virgin Mary herself
[honestly - I'm not joking] were kept at Canterbury, and dipped into water
which was given to the faithful to drink.  This was the high-point of the
Canterbury pilgrimage, and I think gives added point to Chaucer's Host when
he says to the Pardoner:

Thou woldest make me kisse thyn olde breech,
And swere it were a relyk of a seint,
Though it were with thy fundement depeint!

Had the 'olde breech' really belonged to a saint, it would have been a
perfectly acceptable relic.

Thus, water which had had any contact with a saint, or his clothing, or
anything that had belonged to him, would be considered charged with Virtue.
Certainly the water in which a saint had been baptised, or in which he had
been accustomed to baptise others, would be full of Virtue.

Certain bodies of water were considered to have healing powers, even in
biblical times, both in the Old and New Testaments.  Thus, Elisha advises
Naaman the Syrian to wash seven times in the Jordan (2 Kings 5:10 ff);
Jesus tells a blind man to wash his eyes in the pool Siloam (John 9:7);  and
St John also records the miracles of the pool of Bethesda:  "Now there is at
Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue
Bethesda, having five porches.  In these lay a great multitude of impotent
folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.  For an
angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water:
whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made
whole of whatever disease he had." (John 5:2-4)

All this by way of demonstrating that the cult of relics, as possessing
Virtue, is not pagan but Christian and Scriptural;  the Christian
antecedents are not pagan but Jewish, and amply recorded in the Hebrew
scriptures;  and the cult of holy wells, pools and springs finds its place
in this tradition.  Christians may (for ought I know) have from time to
time, taken over a pagan spring;  but the notion of a holy spring is in
itself authentically and scripturally Christian.

Bill.




%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager