ok - so it's good to hear that you also initially went into the sciences,
even though you now say that you were dissuaded to continue in a typically
male dominated area of engineering. What can be done to stop this effect
upon women? Do you think it's even harder for women to go into engineering
or other types of 'applied' science, which are not only male dominated, but
as someone else has pointed out recently are 'unfashionable' or considered
down market from the 'pure' science which goes on in the lab? Maybe other
women tend to push this problem aside a little? (Not that I am blaming women
for any of this!)
I couldn't agree more with your points about needing scientific thinkers in
every section of society. I think a better secondary school science
education could help to at least open up young minds to the fact that you
don't have to be a full time scientist to understand and adhere to its
principals. Some of the stuffy experiment which are still being used in
schools could be replaced with more dynamic interactive work. Children are
more than able to understand the logic of science, because many of them are
not yet aware of the fuzzy arguments put forward by various people in our
society. I'm not saying they shouldn't be aware of these alternatives, but
it's seems to me that to redress some of the imbalance, a really sound early
education could help future generations out of this idea of science being
impenetrable.
anna
Jennifer Gristock wrote:
> On Sunday, April 11, 1999 6:14 PM, [log in to unmask]
> [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] wrote:
> > I agree with what you are saying Jennifer - but somehow I did make the
> decision to
> > go into science.
>
> So did I. 'Most' is not all. There are always exceptions. But that is
> not good enough, is it?
>
> And whether it was my upbringing or whatever, I was always aware
> > that there wasn't going to be much money in it, but that didn't bother
> me.
>
> I had an idea that job prospects would be better if I did engineering.
> My family upbringing/background created a need for job security - if not
> a job that is secure, then at least, the prospect of being able to get
> another one.
>
> I do
> > see though, that money is a big issue to most people, and I also see
> how 'science'
> > appears to high school students picking their GCSEs. I have a brother
> who is 14
> > and will soon make these decisions, and it is all too clear how
> haphazard the
> > basis for decision making will be.
>
> I don't think it is haphazard to those making the decisions. It is
> perfectly 'logical' to make those decisions at 13/4, when you have a
> different belief systems about what is important in life, because your
> experience of life is limited to the school bubble.
>
>
> > I might be an exception to the problem facing science; I am not only
> female, I
> > have completed a degree and will be starting a PhD in
> physiology/biochemistry, I
> > even have friends, wear make-up and goto clubs.
>
> There are many of us. My first degrees are in Materials Science and
> Materials Engineering. I have since moved in to the social sciences: I
> am in the final year of a PhD in Science and Technology Policy. I was
> driven out of engineering by sexism at every level.
>
> But I would love to see this as
> > not an exception. I would really love to see the sort of intelligent,
> energetic
> > people I meet every day having made the decision to go into science
> rather than
> > business
>
> But of course, but there is a need for scientists, and science-trained
> people in business too. We need people who understand the scientific
> process, or scientific language, in every type of work. How else can we
> hope for science-friendly government policy (not just in funding
> decisions either), sane research portfolios of large companies, and
> small businesses who don't think that 'innovation' has no meaning for
> them. The outcome of scientific work is not just affected by the
> research activities of scientists. I would argue that we need to change
> the science/arts split right from the beginning, as opposed to working
> to keep scientists out of business and government.
>
> >or other highly paid jobs
>
> In terms of salaries, I have only just discovered the realities of life
> as a scientist- no job stability, less pay than in the private sector,
> etc etc. It has come as a big suprise. My son is five, I support the
> whole family. It has been quite a revelation to discover that at the end
> of my PhD, I won't be able to exchange my 500 quid a month rent bill for
> a lower mortgage, as at best, I will be running around in the
> gerbil-wheel of 6-month contracts. I can't see myself staying in this
> position.
>
> ...or more often, rather than having gone for a
> > totally different kettle of fish and decided there was no career
> suitable for them
> > and they'd rather float around the world feeling vaguely
> dissolusioned.
>
> Yes. Very true.
>
> >
> > There has been so much talk about the problems science faces with lack
> of funding,
> > lack of appeal to young people, lack of public understanding. Noone
> seems to have
> > any real suggestions about what can be done. > I may spend the odd
> evening trying
> > to stick up for it with people I meet, but I would much rather think
> there was
> > some way in which people who care could make a real difference.
>
> I write a weekly science column in two regional newspapers: one in
> Swansea, one in Bristol. It is very disruptive to my research, (I am
> behind with my PhD) and it doesn't pay very well, but I think the only
> way to open the imagination of younger people is to give them a living
> example of a scientist's day to day experiences, and to talk about
> scientific discoveries in a real, living, questioning way. And to gove
> it context so that it has meaning for everyone.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of other possibilities, but this is the one I
> seem to be able to pull off and enjoy.
>
> ___________________________________________________
>
> Jenny Gristock
>
> SPRU Centre for Information, Networks and Knowledge,
> University of Sussex,
> Falmer, Brighton BN1 9RF
>
> Tel: +44 (0)1273 877282
> Fax: +44 (0)1273 685865
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/prpk1/index.html
>
> ___________________________________________________
>
> more info about the column is available on:
>
> http://www.sussex.ac.uk/Users/prpk1/copus96.htm
>
> my pages areim the middle of major revisions. With luck my PhD thesis
> won't have to be .. . .
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