JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for DC-GENERAL Archives


DC-GENERAL Archives

DC-GENERAL Archives


DC-GENERAL@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

DC-GENERAL Home

DC-GENERAL Home

DC-GENERAL  September 1996

DC-GENERAL September 1996

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Metadata User Guide group report

From:

Jon Knight <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

dc-general

Date:

Sun, 22 Sep 1996 22:16:07 (BST)

Content-Type:

TEXT/PLAIN

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

TEXT/PLAIN (308 lines)

On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, John Kunze wrote:
> The User Guide group is happy to announce that after significant surgery,
> a healthier Dublin Core has been taken off the critical list, its condition
> downgraded to serious.  We managed to gut, clear, strengthen, and sharpen.
> 13 elements have been reduced to 10; plus a net reduction of one qualifier.
> Elements and qualifiers have short, long, and numeric names.

Gosh; this must be one of the greatest examples of the documentation
changing the product and completely out of the blue as well.  Crumbs. 
Therefore this email is going to have to be quite long as well so that I
can cover all the areas that concern me; hit delete now if you're not
interested in reading my long rambling drivel... :-)

> eg, isn't it time to start _requiring_ some elements?

No IMHO.  I'd like DC to continue to be nice and loose so that it can be 
used in situations where you don't know (and maybe can't know) some of 
the element values.  Like not knowing who the author of a web page is or 
even what its real title is (yep, there are untitled documents).  I know 
for a fact that if we required, say, Author lots of the resource templates 
that subject services that we supply our software to would suddenly cease 
to be DC compliant.  And that would be a bummer.

> Some changes proposed for Dublin Core
> -------------------------------------
> 1. eliminated Coverage 
> too specialized, some functions covered by flags qualifier, less is more

I'm not too fussed about this, but I guess that the GIS people (and 
related types) might be a bit pissed at loosing this element.  Having one 
element to cover spatial and temporal information didn't seem to much of 
an overhead to me.

> 2. renamed ObjectType to Type
> less jargon, why qualify this element (e.g., no ObjectAuthor?)

Fine by me.  Its just a name (but lets be consistent on what we call 
things _before_ we all start showing our wares to Joe Public; if 
everybody likes this, I'll change my documents accordingly).

> 3. new element Contributor subsumes OtherAgent and Publisher
> less jargon, fewer similar elements

Why not subsume author as well?  An author is just another contributor 
after all.

> 4. subsumed Source into Relation
> natural fits, less is more

Fine.
 
> 6. eliminated the qualifiers "type" and "identfier"; added "flags" qualifier
>    - type (hopeless, never defined)

Not keen on loosing Type; Paul, Dave, myself and some of the other meta2
bods seemed to be converging on using Scheme to indicate that an element
value conforms to some known external representation and the Type
sub-element for dealing with DC specific element values.  That seemed to 
be quite popular judging from the email I got about it.

>    - identifier (confusing, functionality easily subsumed

Yep, I'd come to that conclusion as well.

> 2.1. Example: Stand-Alone Metadata
> 
> The first example of a metadata record is contained in a computer file by
> itself. It describes a photograph in another file that has a location given
> by a Uniform Resource Locator (URL) [2]. The entire record file looks like
> this.
> 
>         <META name="dc.Title" content="Kita Yama (Japan)">
>         <META name="dc.Author" content="Kertesz, Andre">
>         <META name="dc.Date" content="1968">
>         <META name="dc.Type" content="e/photograph">
>         <META name="dc.Form" content="GIF">
>         <META name="dc.Resource" content="http://foo.bar.zaf/kertesz/kyama">

Err, if its in a file by itself (ie not embedded in HTML), shouldn't it 
be using the SGML DTD that the Lou et al came up with just after the 
Warwick meeting?  The use of the META element is an HTML thing and is a 
bit pointless for a standalone file.

> Another point of interest is the Resource (dc.Resource) Content, which
> normally contains a URL showing the document's Web address (as in the
> previous example). In this case, the characters ``$File'' probably mean that
> the Web site has been set up cleverly to replace those characters with a URL
> for the current location before the indexing program comes to collect
> metadata. This is a hypothetical site-specific solution to a common problem
> of maintaining metadata when the file location changes, and support for such
> a mechanism is outside the scope of this guide.

That's a kludgy hack; I don't think its really appropriate for a DC user 
guide.

>         <META name="dc.Author; Role=composer"
>               content="Honauer, Leontzi; Schobert, Johann">
> [...]
>         <META name="dc.Resource; Scheme=LCCN"
>               content="M219.H65P">
> [...]
>         <META name="dc.Resource; Scheme=none"
>               content="UCB Music Lib., Case X">

Agghhh, I hope that isn't supposed to be <META> elements for embedding in 
HTML 2.0 documents.  I thought we'd got through the META element 
formatting problem in a way that was valid for the HTML 2.0 DTD; those 
META elements above ARE NOT valid.  Please can we have our valid format back:

  <META NAME="DC.author" 
    CONTENT="(role=composer) Honauer, Leontzi; Schobert, Johann">

I know I'm anal about this but I think that it's very important to make sure 
that we build on the standards we've got, not break them.

> Creators of metadata, also known as ``metaloguers'',

Are they?  First time I've head of ``metaloguers'' and Alta Vista had 
never heard of the word either (Alta Vista is, as we all know, replacing 
the OED as the English dictionary of choice these days :-) ).  We're not 
making up new words are we? :-) :-)

> 3.1. Author (au, 1)
> 
> Authors may be names of people (default) or organizations (flags=-p). 

I like the idea of flagging organizational names but isn't "flags=-p" a
tad cryptic?  Its fine for my programs but maybe not something we'd want
Joe Punter to be exposed to.  Could we at least have optional more verbose
versions?  I would think that this is quite important considering the
number of times people have said that they'd like DC to be human readable.

Also we need some way of specifying ordering of authors (and maybe the 
other contributors?).

> 3.2. Date (da, 5)
> [...]
> This format provides software with an unambiguous date
> that is simple to convert to a variety of display formats (e.g., 6 May 1995)
> and easily ordered with respect to other dates (e.g., for range checking or
> chronological sorting).

One big thing missing in this date format is a time zone.  Are you 
assuming that all dates will be in UTC and the browser/robot/whatever is 
responsible for conversions to/from local time zones.  If so, then this 
should be explicitly stated.

Can I also suggest additional roles (as they appear in your document) of 
ValidFrom and ValidTo?  ValidFrom is the date from which the resource is 
valid and ValidTo is the date after which the resource is not longer 
valid.  Handy for resources with known temporal characteristics (eg: HTML 
adverts for the latest movies that won't be on the server six months from 
now but whose metadata might still be swishing about inside some big 
indexers).

> 3.3. Form (fm, 6)
> 
> Default Qualifiers: role=best1.0, scheme=rmv.
> Some Content designations from the RMV scheme (which borrows heavily from
> MIME [8] XXX) are listed here.

Why not just use MIME?  What's the need for RMV (is it a library standard
that I don't know about or is it a DC special)?  I think scheme=MIME (or
scheme=IMT if you're being all modern).  At least MIME already has a
running registry and we wouldn't need to duplicate effort.  Or is RMV a
completely fixed, non-expandable list of resource types? 

> 3.4. Resource (rs, 8)
> 
> Some creators of metadata will wish to maintain links by automatic processes
> that make it possible to move files around without changing the URIs
> embedded in metadata. By convention, a Resource link Content of ``dummy''
> may be used as a signal to those processes to replace the Content with a
> correct URI.

Er, surely they'll still need an identifier of some sort in order to know 
what the real URL (or ISSN or SICI or URN or whatever) is?  This seems 
like a bit of a hack to me again; its something that should be internal 
to the local processing software and not something we need to specify in 
a global "on-the-wire" guide.

> For certain resources, such as very small documents, it may be useful to
> include the entire document in the descriptive record. In this case, use the
> ``flags=-l'' Qualifier to indicate that the resource identified is available
> immediately (or inline) as the Resource element Content. For example, here
> is a tiny poem represented inside one its own metadata elements:

Heh, I can see an option for infinite recursion here (eg: an HTML 2.0 
document containing its metadata which contains an HTML 2.0 document 
which contains its metadata which etc, etc, etc) :-)

> 3.5. Language (la, 7)
> 
> Language: The human or computer language in which the intellectual content
> is expressed.

I'd suggest using ISO 639 as the default Scheme for this element and then 
allowing other Schemes to deal with languages (such as computer languages 
and non-verbal languages such as BSL).  Referencing an externally 
maintained, well known standard directly seems to be a much easier course of 
action than creating this new RMV scheme sub-element type from a variety 
of sources.  Why make more work for ourselves?

> 3.7. Contributor (co, 9)
> 
> Contributor: A person or agency, other than Author, who has made noteworthy
> secondary contributions to the resource.

Again, I'd say that we could get author in there as well if we're after 
lopping off elements.

> 4. Basic Principles of Descriptive Elements
>
> In summary, an element definition looks like
> 
>         <META name="dc.NAME; QUALIFIER=VALUE" content="CONTENT">
> where the ``; QUALIFIER=VALUE'' part is optional and may be repeated. Spaces
> around the `;' are optional.

Once again I'll plead for:

  <META NAME="dc.ElementName" CONTENT="(sub-element=sevalue) ElementValue">

for use in HTML 2.0 documents and the existing SGML DTD for stand alone 
Dublin Core records.

> Any metadata element may be omitted or repeated. As a shorthand for repeated
> elements, one element can share its Name part (including Qualifiers, if any)
> with a second element by appending a `;' (semi- colon) and the Content of
> the second to the Content of the first. So the first two lines below are
> equivalent to the third line.
> 
>         <META name="dc.Author" content="Marx, K">
>         <META name="dc.Author" content="Engels, F">
>         <META name="dc.Author" content="Marx, K; Engels, F">

> To repeat elements with different Qualifiers, list each element definition
> separately; the shorthand cannot be used. Use a backslash, as in ``\;'', if
> you want to include a literal semi-colon in the Content. To include a
> literal double-quote (`"') in this metadata notation, write it as %22 [XXX].

Can we have uniform escaping please?  Otherwise, how would you encode the 
literal %22 (not the encoded form of `"')?

> 4.4. Kinds of Element Name Qualifiers

As a quick aside, the preceeding sections would make more sense if 
Section 4.3 and this section preceeded them.  I'm reading this linearly 
and I was left floundering earlier on as to what the sub-element "flags=l" 
meant in the Resource element.  This section clears that up, but it would 
make the document easier to read if the terminology came before the 
DC Element descriptions.

> Element Qualifier: flags (fl, 32)
> 
>      Flag=g
>           The element Content specifies a geospatial region associated with
>           the resource being described. By default, elements are not
>           associated with geospatial regions. For example, here's a record
>           for a map that has a conventional as well as a second title that
>           is rather more useful for searching than for display (to the
>           average searcher).
> 
>                   <META name="dc.Title" content="Great Barrier Reef Marine Park">
>                   <META name="dc.Title; flags=g; scheme=FGDC"
>                           content="E1800000, W1800000, N900000, S900000">
>                   <META name="dc.Date" content="19960912">
>                   <META name="dc.Type" content="e/map">

I think this is the best example of why the DC.coverage element is 
needed. :-)

> 6. Non-Core Metadata and Creating Your Own Element Names
> 
> Experimental metadata terms are either Shared Experimental or Private
> Experimental. Private Experimental terms may be created and entered into the
> RMV database at will by any organization that wishes to sponsor them. The
> terms all start with ``x.ORG.'', where ORG is replaced by the organization's
> abbreviation. For example, ``x.ucsf.library'' and ``x.ucsf.cafeteria'' might
> be campus locations sponsored by UCSF. When a Private term has achieved
> sufficient community acceptance, it becomes Shared Experimental, in which
> case it loses the organization abbreviation, as in ``x.library'' and
> ``x.cafeteria''.

This is a cool expansion mechanism.  Might want also to mention Warwick 
Framework as another means of adding additional metadata packages without 
needing to fiddle with DC?

Sorry if this email was a bit long and sounded a bit negative but the 
User Guide did contain an awful lot of changes from what we currently 
know and love as DC and I felt obliged to comment.  Shoot me now. :-)

Tatty bye,

Jim'll

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jon "Jim'll" Knight, Researcher, Sysop and General Dogsbody, Dept. Computer
Studies, Loughborough University of Technology, Leics., ENGLAND.  LE11 3TU.
* I've found I now dream in Perl.  More worryingly, I enjoy those dreams. *







Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

February 2024
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
March 2020
February 2019
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager