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Subject:

Re: Marine Records and NHRE to HER

From:

Richard Watts <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 22 May 2020 09:06:55 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (1 lines)

Hi all,

Thanks to Nick, Martin and Sarah for those replies - very helpful indeed!
It's good to know I wasn't too far off the mark in my hazy recollections, and it's great to have an update on how well you're doing on this project.

I'll miss not seeing you all at the Summer Forum meeting, but I hope you're all keeping well! Best wishes,

Richard Watts
Senior Historic Environment Officer (Records)
Historic Places Team

07786 740646

Lancaster House  | 36 Orchard Street  | Lincoln  | LN1 1XX



-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Poppy, Sarah
Sent: 22 May 2020 09:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Marine Records and NHRE to HER

Thanks Nick, and yes you are correct.  Our advice is just that, not to delete any locally stored maritime records.

The marine element of the NRHE (below mean high water) as previously managed in AMIE will be the foundation for the HE marine record.  We have done some preliminary investigations with a selection of coastal HERs to investigate their own marine holdings and data sharing preferences, but the full detail of how this will work in the future is to be developed and will be discussed in detail with interested parties from HER and marine heritage sectors.

We'll aim to update the FAQs on the basis of themes emerging from the webinar next week, and thanks for all the interest so far!

Best
Sarah



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-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nick Boldrini
Sent: 22 May 2020 09:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Marine Records and NHRE to HER

Hi Richard

Youre right about the maritime record split, as I understand it, and I think there is a section on the project website to that extent. Whether the HE national Maritime dataset has been set up yet I don't know.

However, NRHE to HER is just a one way process, so I won't be deleting any of our maritime records yet - though I envisage at some point we will once HE have carried out some sort of inquiry about what we have.

Generically, if youre thinking of doing a bid then I would suggest getting access to the project site to see the guidance on there - it won't answer all question, but is helpful

best wishes

Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Archaeology Section
Heritage, Landscapes and Design Team
Environmental Services
Regeneration and Local Services
Durham County Council
County Hall
Durham
DH1 5UQ
Direct: 03000 267008
Switchboard: 03000 26 0000
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-----Original Message-----
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Richard Watts
Sent: 22 May 2020 08:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Marine Records and NHRE to HER

Hello all!

I hope you're all managing to keep safe and well at the moment. Sarah's message yesterday reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask for some time, regarding Marine records and who's responsibility they are to record, but also how the NHRE to HER deals with them. I'm sure a version of this question will have been asked before, but I couldn't find anything in the Forum archive or on IFP, and I'm struggling on some aspects of this generally. Any help clarifying the position would be really helpful to me!

As I understand it, there is a national Marine HER, that records features of our coastal historic environment from the mean low water mark out to sea - basically anything that is always covered by water should be recorded by the national Marine HER, and everything from the mean low water mark upwards (intertidal zone, beaches, etc.) is the responsibility of the local HERs. Am I correct in thinking about this, or have I just completely made that up? (I have been eating a lot more cheese in lockdown, and the fever dreams have been interesting…). I say this because I've not been able to find a way to access records for this Marine HER – possibly just because I've not searched very well, but it doesn't appear as a searchable resource on Heritage Gateway and I couldn't find a link to it anywhere else. I know there's the Citizan project and the recently launched Marine Antiquities Scheme website, but I didn't think they were the same thing as a Marine HER. I am starting to wonder now if I haven't just imagined it all…

In terms of who's responsible for what area, there's also the issue about rivers and estuaries (and possibly lakes and reservoirs, though I think that's less contentious?), and exactly where you draw the line between the local HERs and a Marine HER. We also have quite a large number of sandbars off the Lincolnshire coast and in the Wash – whilst occasionally dry and not covered by water, my thinking would be that they belong with the Marine HER?

We currently have quite a few marine records in our HER (records of shipwrecks, historic settlements that have been lost to coastal erosion, etc.), and I'm wondering how they would be dealt with by the NHRE to HER project – I'm fully on board with the terrestrial side of this project and am hoping for us to sign up to it as soon as we're able (got to do our HER Audit first). I'm wondering how we can reconcile Marine records, and if the NHRE to HER project is a two-way process – can we feed data from the HER to the national dataset? An example to illustrate what I mean by this would be Haile Sand Fort – a grade II listed World War One fortress off the coast near Grimsby (& well worth a visit if you ever get a chance!). When initially listed in 1991, it was assigned to the Lincolnshire parish of Tetney, and is thus duly recorded in our HER. It lies very much beyond the mean low water mark though, and can only be reached by boat. Its current list description now records it as unparished and offshore, and therefore it should be part of a Marine HERs recording zone, not ours. Should I therefore delete the record we have for it in our HER? If I just delete the Marine records we have, there's quite a strong potential for a fair amount of information to be lost, if they aren't also recorded in a national dataset, and the information in HERs passed the other way.

Apologies for the rather rambling questions here – any help in clarifying exactly where our various responsibilities lie would be really helpful though. I'll try and lay off the cheese for a bit if I have just imagined all of this…

Best wishes to all,

Richard Watts
Lincolnshire County Council

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