Now this is the kind of low stakes quibbling I can tolerate on a Monday morning in an awful world.
With all due respect to David, sampling can also refer to creating data sets from a smaller number of individuals to make inferences about the whole species/population etc. and that can just be taking measurements, recording characters etc. so there is a legitimate use of non-destructive sampling too but it is not the 'opposite' of destructive sampling if you get what I mean.
IN ANY CASE, I do feel that there is benefit to us as a community perhaps doing a bit of educatin' about both destructive and non-destructive sampling as I'm sure we all receive destructive sampling requests along the lines of- 'The sampling won't be destructive because we'll only be taking half the heads off' so there's definitely a disconnect sometimes between 'museum destructive' and 'research destructive' which can lead to sometimes lengthy conversations until researcher and museum curator are on the same page!
Kind regards
Mark Carnall
Collections Manager (Life Collections)
Oxford University Museum of Natural History
Parks Road, Oxford, OX1 3PW
[log in to unmask] | www.oum.ox.ac.uk
Twitter: @mark_carnall
Follow us on Twitter @morethanadodo and read our blog www.morethanadodo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: The Natural Science Collections Association discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Notton
Sent: 15 July 2019 09:35
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: There is no such thing as "non-destructive sampling"
Although the term “non-destructive sampling” is widely used, it is in fact an oxymoron, because sampling means a part of the specimen is removed and/or destroyed, which results in a permanent alteration to the specimen, even if this is small in the case of the bird egg example mentioned. Best use the word “sampling” simply or talk about ways of sampling while minimising damage.
David
David G. Notton, Senior Curator (Hymenoptera)
🐝 Responsible for: Apoidea , Chrysidoidea, Cynipoidea, Proctotrupoidea, Diaprioidea, Ceraphronoidea, Platygastroidea 🐝
Department of Life Sciences, Insects Division, Darwin Centre - room 315, The Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London, SW7 5BD, United Kingdom. 0207 942 5974.
My publications: David Notton Researchgate profile Museum data: Natural History Museum Data Portal
Twitter: @NHM_Bees
-----Original Message-----
From: The Natural Science Collections Association discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nigel Larkin
Sent: 12 July 2019 16:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: non-destructive sample for genetics
Dear Jan,
You may be conflating two stories: obtaining DNA from parchment when cleaning with a rubber, and obtaining DNA from eggs (can't remember if rubbers were involved with that one). Both courtesy of Matt Collins in York. See, for instance:
Parchment:
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Froyalsocietypublishing.org%2Fdoi%2Ffull%2F10.1098%2Frstb.2013.0379&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636985439340182400&sdata=tbBATT2hrd4mRtKheZJTOnuIdvmCugEV6rMAUFkKSto%3D&reserved=0
Eggs
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2Fscience%2Farticle%2Fpii%2FS0305440312004943&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636985439340182400&sdata=OTIBWeP2M2Kgdv3QvfSZ%2FxknCezIXyY9XUnZANVQy6k%3D&reserved=0
With best wishes, Nigel.
On 2019-07-12 14:47, Pip Brewer wrote:
> Are you sure it's not collagen, rather than DNA? i.e.,
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> york.ac.uk%2Farchaeology%2Fcentres-facilities%2Fbioarch%2Ffacilities%2
> Fzooms%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479c
> bf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C6369854393
> 40182400&sdata=HIsaHzsLeaPdBhQVuMIjF4LgTuuGJrZkhVjugS%2F9n5o%3D&am
> p;reserved=0
> [1]
>
> FROM: The Natural Science Collections Association discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] ON BEHALF OF Freedman, Jan
> SENT: 12 July 2019 14:29
> TO: [log in to unmask]
> SUBJECT: non-destructive sample for genetics
>
> Hi All,
>
> I seem to remember at a previous NatSCA conference hearing about
> someone obtaining DNA from birds eggs by using a rubber - so the
> rubber bits held the DNA, and the egg itself wasn't physically
> damaged.
>
> Does anyone know if that was published? Or does anyone have examples
> of non-destructive sampling which has successfully obtained genetic
> results?
>
> Thanks all,
>
> Jan
>
> Jan Freedman
> Curator
> Economic Development
> Plymouth City Council
> Plymouth Museums Galleries Archives
>
> 37 Tavistock Place
> Plymouth
> PL4 8AX
>
> T +441752304765
> E [log in to unmask]
>
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.p
> lymhearts.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8
> a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636
> 985439340182400&sdata=E%2FM5PC%2BqfDJgPOsQMgbmUVHdHcICXNoh%2BQUxO3
> AImo8%3D&reserved=0 [2]
>
> -------------------------
>
> IMPORTANT: This e-mail (including any attachments to it) is strictly
> confidential and intended solely for the person or organisation to
> whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential or
> sensitive information. If you are not the intended recipient, you must
> not copy or distribute it to any other person or take any action in
> reliance. If you have received it in error, please notify your system
> manager and the sender as soon as possible and then delete it from
> your system.
>
> -------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the NATSCA list, click the following link:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> jiscmail.ac.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwebadmin%3FSUBED1%3DNATSCA%26A%3D1&data
> =02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C7
> 3a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636985439340182400&sdata
> =gN%2FSwf6FbahjuazVL8%2FPpFoiP1P9ZO5IkJKRsk6uIKc%3D&reserved=0 [3]
>
> -------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the NATSCA list, click the following link:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> jiscmail.ac.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwebadmin%3FSUBED1%3DNATSCA%26A%3D1&data
> =02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C7
> 3a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636985439340182400&sdata
> =gN%2FSwf6FbahjuazVL8%2FPpFoiP1P9ZO5IkJKRsk6uIKc%3D&reserved=0
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> york.ac.uk%2Farchaeology%2Fcentres-facilities%2Fbioarch%2Ffacilities%2
> Fzooms%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479c
> bf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C6369854393
> 40182400&sdata=HIsaHzsLeaPdBhQVuMIjF4LgTuuGJrZkhVjugS%2F9n5o%3D&am
> p;reserved=0
> [2]
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.p
> lymhearts.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8
> a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636
> 985439340182400&sdata=E%2FM5PC%2BqfDJgPOsQMgbmUVHdHcICXNoh%2BQUxO3
> AImo8%3D&reserved=0
> [3]
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> jiscmail.ac.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwebadmin%3FSUBED1%3DNATSCA%26A%3D1&data
> =02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C7
> 3a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636985439340182400&sdata
> =gN%2FSwf6FbahjuazVL8%2FPpFoiP1P9ZO5IkJKRsk6uIKc%3D&reserved=0
########################################################################
To unsubscribe from the NATSCA list, click the following link:
https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jiscmail.ac.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fwebadmin%3FSUBED1%3DNATSCA%26A%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cd.notton%40nhm.ac.uk%7C7ba4e5a71e8a41479cbf08d706e1d5b0%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C636985439340182400&sdata=gN%2FSwf6FbahjuazVL8%2FPpFoiP1P9ZO5IkJKRsk6uIKc%3D&reserved=0
########################################################################
To unsubscribe from the NATSCA list, click the following link:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=NATSCA&A=1
########################################################################
To unsubscribe from the NATSCA list, click the following link:
https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=NATSCA&A=1
|
