JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for PHD-DESIGN Archives


PHD-DESIGN Archives

PHD-DESIGN Archives


PHD-DESIGN@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

PHD-DESIGN Home

PHD-DESIGN Home

PHD-DESIGN  May 2019

PHD-DESIGN May 2019

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: A definition of design must also exclude as well as include

From:

Terence Love <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 30 May 2019 17:36:53 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (146 lines)

Hi Eduardo,

By 'aesthetic activities' I meant activities whose focus is shaping aesthetic properties.
 
What I wrote assumes that designers (in many fields) as part of their design activities shape the aesthetic properties that will be perceived by someone using those designed artefacts. As you wrote this  is common practice in many areas of design since way back when.

What I'm proposing is specific: that it is useful in design research and theory making to distinguish in research analyses between the details of the  overall activities of creating designs and the activities of managing the aesthetic properties of different aspects of that design (which are often conducted at the same time). 

To give an example from the dictionary you quoted: the design of a medal.

In this case, a designer is required to create the design of a medal that will be produced by a foundry/manufactory organisation.

In creating the design, the designer will think about its size and thickness, the choice of metal, the  techniques for avoiding counterfeiting, restrictions on detail due to manufacturing methods and the choice of metal, symbolisms, cultural cues, purposes of the medal, which signifiers to include, how the signifiers and other details in the appearance of the medal can be arranged on a fixed size of surface, and how the arrangement of the appearance details can be done  in the most aesthetic manner taking into account the engineering limitations of the manufacturing process to be used. Then a prototype is  created in a scaled-up form from the drawings  (or carved directly in wax). This prototype from which the casting molds will be made must of course be proportionally larger than the final medal to allow for the metal shrinkage (about 10% in size)  as it cools from liquid to solid.

The aesthetic activities of drawing  or sculpting the surface appearance details to create the design that will be prototyped and manufactured is clearly a part of creating the overall design for the medal. 

What I was suggesting is that it is really useful to get a clearer research understanding of all the details of the design activity (especially when one is exploring the  details of design cognition and automation). 

To do this, I propose it is helpful in research and theory making terms to view the aesthetic activities as epistemologically distinct from the overall activity of designing (still with the idea that aesthetics are a part of designing)  and avoid blurring 'designing and aesthetics' into a single muddy conceptual hole.

Best regards,
Terence
==
Dr Terence Love, 
School of Design and Built Environment, Curtin University, Western Australia
CEO, Design Out Crime and CPTED Centre
PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks, Western Australia 6030
[log in to unmask] 
[log in to unmask]
 +61 (0)4 3497 5848
ORCID 0000-0002-2436-7566
==







-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of eduardocorte-real_iade
Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2019 4:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: A definition of design must also exclude as well as include

Dear Terry,
What do you mean by “aesthetic activity”?
Warm regards,
Eduardo Côrte-Real
PS. I think that, at least historically, everybody will agree that we can seriously argue that aesthetics WAS part of design.
In Noah Webster’s(the father of Mirriam-Webster’s) dictionary of 1828 some of design (n.) meanings were: 
4. The idea or scheme intended to be expressed by an artist; as the designs of medals.
5. In manufactories, the figures with which workmen enrich their stuffs, copied from painting or draughts. 
6. In music, the invention and conduct of the subject; the disposition of every part, and the general order of the whole.”



> No dia 30/05/2019, às 08:48, Terence Love <[log in to unmask]> escreveu:
> 
> Hi Richard,
> 
> Thank you for your message.  Finding a compromise between different 
> points of view is not what it is about.  Solving dilemma's is what it 
> is about. T
> 
> Phd-design  is a research list.  One of its roles is a  focus on correctness of analysis of formal theory proposals, rather than whether people agree or disagree of finding a compromise between opinions.  I'm open to persuasion to your point of view if you put forward a formal theory proposal and sound justification for it.
> 
> On the table is a suggestion that design research and theory making  in Art and Design design fields has got itself stuck in conceptual morass and this can be resolved by a simple theoretical change.
> 
> The change I've proposed that will contribute to solving this mess in design research, and move things forward, is to avoid conflating aesthetic activities and design activities in research and theory making.
> 
> In other words, when investigating design activities and processes, keep aesthetic activities apart and address them in research terms in much the same manner as one addresses structural and functional activities relating to designing. 
> 
> I suspect most experienced design researchers on this list will agree and already do this.
> 
> An implication of it, is that any definition of design would reflect 
> this separation of activities. (as an aside, otherwise why bother 
> calling the activity 'design'? If one is so sure that they are 
> identical in one's design world, why not sell one's services only as 
> 'Aesthetics' rather than 'Design'  - that would also resolve the issue 
> 😉 )
> 
> I look forward to your (and Bernhard's) explanation as to why it is better for design research  and design theorymaking to NOT  differentiate between design activities and aesthetic activities. 
> 
> As I wrote, I'm happy to be persuaded on the basis of a sound analysis.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Terence
> ==
> Dr Terence Love,
> School of Design and Built Environment, Curtin University, Western 
> Australia CEO, Design Out Crime and CPTED Centre PO Box 226, Quinns 
> Rocks, Western Australia 6030 [log in to unmask] 
> [log in to unmask]
> +61 (0)4 3497 5848
> ORCID 0000-0002-2436-7566
> ==
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and 
> related research in <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Richard 
> Herriott
> Sent: Wednesday, 29 May 2019 7:37 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: A definition of design must also exclude as well as 
> include
> 
> Dear Terence:
> 
> " I'm seriously arguing that aesthetics is NOT part of design."  That is an unexpected and profound difference between our viewpoints. 
> It seems to be on the order of disagreeing about which direction "up" is.  I am not saying you are wrong but that I can´t see a path towards compromise that respects either of our stances. It is, at least, an interesting dilemma.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD 
> studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at 
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD 
> studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at 
> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
> -----------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------------------------------------------------------
PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
-----------------------------------------------------------------


-----------------------------------------------------------------
PhD-Design mailing list  <[log in to unmask]>
Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design
Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager