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ZOOARCH  March 2019

ZOOARCH March 2019

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Subject:

Re: Can dogs fish?

From:

S Hamilton-Dyer <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

S Hamilton-Dyer <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 12 Mar 2019 09:58:34 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (284 lines)

Seem to remember an Attenborough programme that said the wolves waited 
until the bears had had the fat and liver as it was not good for the 
wolves - so they waited and ate what was left - the head and skin.
S.

SH-D ArchaeoZoology
http://www.shd-archzoo.co.uk

On 12/03/2019 09:52, Arturo Morales wrote:
> Wolves only eating head and skins? not able to separate skin from the flesh? Uhmmm....sounds a bit strange to me.
> Could it be that what wolves are targeting here is fat, instead of meat?.......polar bears used to preferentially feed on the subcutaneous fat of seals (esp. pups and sub-adults)  in the "good old days" when seals were abundant.
> Arturo
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites [mailto:[log in to unmask]] En nombre de Javier Escudero-carrillo
> Enviado el: martes, 12 de marzo de 2019 1:18
> Para: [log in to unmask]
> Asunto: Re: [ZOOARCH] Can dogs fish?
>
> Dear everyone,
>
> In youtube there are several videos about dogs and wolves fishing. I know it's not very scientific but it's curious ( and funny).
>
> Dogs:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6hZtvvsu2s
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlS0cOfCkWQ
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skd-XVnTdGA
>
> Wolves
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neAIcVyW7gs
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuoveURXjbw
>
> In one of the videos they explain that wolves hunt more salmon than they can eat because they only eat the head and skin. Not being able to separate the skin from the flesh, they let the scavengers do it and then go back and eat the remains.
>
> Amelia Halls <[log in to unmask]> escribió:
>
>> Dear everyone,
>>
>> Thank you so much for all your replies, this has given me a lot of
>> interesting things to think about!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Amelia
>>
>> On 11 Mar 2019, at 16:09, Laszlo Bartosiewicz
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Francesco, dear All,
>>
>> Many thanks for the valuable input. This is how trivia contribute to
>> specialist knowledge. Eventually real facts start emerging.
>>
>> Best wishes, Laszlo
>> ________________________________
>> From: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of
>> Francesco Boschin <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> Sent: 11 March 2019 13:09:55
>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: [ZOOARCH] R: [ZOOARCH] Can dogs fish?
>>
>> Dear all,
>>   "fishing" wolves were observed in Italy, feeding in the fish farms of
>> the Orbetello Lagoon (Grosseto, Tuscany).
>>
>> You can use the link below, even if the video is not very informative...
>>
>> http://www.nationalgeographic.it/multimedia/2018/03/28/video/lupo_cacc
>> ia_in_laguna-3920640/1/
>>
>> Best whishes,
>>
>>     Francesco
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Da: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> per conto di
>> Arturo Morales <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> Inviato: lunedì 11 marzo 2019 12:14
>> A: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Oggetto: Re: [ZOOARCH] Can dogs fish?
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>>
>> To elaborate further on this issue, Hans Peter Uerpmann once told me
>> that, up until the XXth century, the perro de aguas portugués (lit.
>> Portuguese water-dog……..you may recall the breed because this is
>> Obama’s pet dog), was regularly taken onboard by Portuguese fishermen
>> operating in the Grand Banks/Newfoundland waters because the animal
>> was apparently able to retrieve gear, as well as large fish lost in
>> the water. Some animals were able to dive to achieve their goal!
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m sure there must be loads of ethnographic data on the fishing
>> abilities of this fox-terrier-size breed and others.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Arturo
>>
>>
>>
>> De: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] En nombre de Rebecca Reynolds Enviado
>> el: lunes, 11 de marzo de 2019 12:02
>> Para: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Asunto: Re: [ZOOARCH] Can dogs fish?
>>
>>
>>
>> Following on from Laszlo's anecdotal evidence, my labrador seems to
>> have also opportunistically caught fish. While I can't be 100% sure,
>> when the tide would come into the harbour she would wander in and
>> stick her head under the water and when she would lift it up again she
>> appeared to be chomping on something, licking her chops and look
>> extremely pleased with herself! Not the most empirical of data...
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2019 at 10:02, Laszlo Bartosiewicz
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>>
>>
>> More anecdotal evidence: our Labrador, a highly specialized
>> "water-dog", once pursued a frog into a river, but gave up once it
>> would have taken too much time to stick her nose under water: I think
>> her breathing skills were not developed enough. This does not exclude
>> canids catching opportunistically fish exposed, such as salmon during
>> their upstream rush. But this is only my speculation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any reference to polar bear vs brown bear fishing?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best wishes, Laszlo
>> ________________________________
>> From: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of
>> Josh Henkin <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> Sent: 10 March 2019 23:15:31
>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: [ZOOARCH] Can dogs fish?
>>
>>
>>
>> I read Bruce Brown's Mountain in the Clouds: A Search for the Wild
>> Salmon several years ago now, but, to continue with the Pacific
>> Northwest tack here, I believe he mentions that dogs at least play
>> with and kill salmon for sport when they are in sufficiently
>> accessible shallow waters, based on at least anecdotal evidence. I
>> assume they would eat them as well if they weren't already well-fed
>> otherwise -- however that's assuming these aren't wild dogs --
>> although I don't claim expertise here!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Josh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, March 10, 2019, Jonathan Driver
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>> Just Google "Sea wolves great bear rain forest" or "coastal wolves
>> great bear rain forest". Lots of information about coastal wolves
>> that use marine resources on the coast of British Columbia.
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan Driver, PhD, RPA
>> Professor, Chair of the Graduate Program Committee,
>> Department of Archaeology, Simon Fraser University, 8888 University
>> Drive,<https://maps.google.com/?q=8888+University+Drive,+Burnaby,+BC,+Canada&entry=gmail&source=g> Burnaby, BC,
>> Canada<https://maps.google.com/?q=8888+University+Drive,+Burnaby,+BC,+Canada&entry=gmail&source=g>
>> http://www.sfu.ca/archaeology/faculty/driver.html
>> President, Western Canadian Universities Marine Sciences Society
>> http://www.bamfieldmsc.com/
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of
>> Amelia Halls
>> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>> Sent: March 10, 2019 5:37 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: [ZOOARCH] Can dogs fish?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am an undergraduate student currently writing my dissertation on
>> human-canid interactions in the Mesolithic of north-western Europe.
>> I’m trying to find evidence or papers that discuss dogs (or wolves)
>> being capable (or not) of fishing. That is, I have isotope ratios
>> for a couple of dogs at a Mesolithic coastal site in Britain which
>> have a mixed marine and terrestrial signature, and I am trying to
>> offer suggestions about whether dogs were hunting and consuming fish
>> themselves, or whether they were scavenging/sharing fish/marine
>> mammals that humans have caught. However, I can’t seem to find
>> papers that discuss this - does anyone have access to any papers
>> which discuss the fishing capabilities of canids?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Amelia
>>
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