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MINING-HISTORY  December 2017

MINING-HISTORY December 2017

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Subject:

Re: 1763 lead mines in Mid-Wales

From:

GRAHAM LEVINS <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

GRAHAM LEVINS <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 2 Dec 2017 00:16:22 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

Hello Alwyn
Sagan Las could very well be Siglenlas Mine, Montgomeryshire. Grid Ref SN 866 840.

All the best
Graham Graham LevinsSecretaryWelsh Mines Preservation [log in to unmask]@welshmines.org01293-51056707880-817370
Visit our websitewww.welshminestrust.org

      From: Alwyn Evans <[log in to unmask]>
 To: [log in to unmask] 
 Sent: Friday, 1 December 2017, 23:57
 Subject: Re: 1763 lead mines in Mid-Wales
   
Richard
I’ve translated ‘gwaith’ as mine(s) rather than the literal meaning, which is ‘works’ He refers often to ‘y wlad yma’ or ‘gwlad’ which I have taken to mean ‘this country’ (i.e. Wales) but it could also refer to a more localised area, round Aberystwyth/ Cardiganshire. Dolaucothi is a bit outside this area though.

Esquire Johnes clearly refers to the Johnes/ Jones family who held the Dolaucothi estate during the 18th/early 19th century -see https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WQ6wkDw8DnUC&pg=PA292&lpg=PA292&dq=Gogofau,+esquire+Johnes&source=bl&ots=VRaz5UlYX4&sig=GmCisGHsG_R7VUHrUi6mJwVCQOA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjO9IDn9-nXAhVImbQKHYoICHEQ6AEIKTAB#v=onepage&q=Gogofau%2C%20esquire%20Johnes&f=false
Pencraig Ddu, also known as Pencarreg Ddu is here
http://map.coflein.gov.uk/index.php?action=do_details&numlink=33894

Llanvair/ Llanfair mine is at Llanfaircludogau. http://www.coflein.gov.uk/en/site/33882/details/llanfair-lead-silver-mine
I don’t have an identifier on the Llanddewi mine but as it’s only 2 miles away it should be easy to find.

Grogwnion mine is near Pontrhydygroes http://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking/find-a-walk-or-route/walk-detail.aspx?walkID=3894673
No idea where Sagan Las is, I’m afraid.
Automatic translation frequently produces this kind of problem particularly when orthography is irregular and often an attempt to reproduce dialect. Punctuation and capitalization are also irregular and I think there could well be a fair few transcription errors. Anyway, the text otherwise is fairly straightforward: it is clear that James Townsend and his new wife are in the area organising mine stewards, and the unidentified writer, already managing Llanddewi mine, is asking for advice on what kind of employer Townsend ( senior or junior?) would be, in an effort to explore ways to augment his responsibilities and income

TRANSLATION
Townsend has many lead mines in this country: Cwymystwyth, Grogwnion,Sagan Las , Estymtean [Ystymtuen], Coginan [Goginan], Pengraig Ddu etc.  He has also just taken on the Llanfair works from Squire Johnes but has done no work here yet. He has taken the Gogofau [Dolaucothi, formerly known as Gogofau or Ogofau - trans. Caves] which is near Caio/Cayo also from SquireJohnes. We have no idea in the world why young Townsend has been in this country for the past three weeks with his wife with him, living in Grogwnion. It was just before Mayday that Townsend got married and he acquired with his wife, they say, about £5,000 a year (lit. ‘in the year’). He has all the stewards [managing ] the lead mines in this country, about 6 or 7 but there is nobody yet settled in Llanfair. I would think from talking to Mr Ball that I might get some kind of steward’s position if I would take it.  He [Townsend] is expected here any day. I do not know whether it is best for me to commit to him or not; give me a word of advice on that since I do not know what kind of a gentleman to have dealings with Townsend is.  If I agree before he leaves the country I will let you know about it. There is only two miles between Llanfair and Llanddewi and that mine is mine ( i.e. I manage it/ am steward of it) since last Michaelmas. If I agree I can make the best of the two mines, but I receive in Llanddewi no more than about £10 a year, and if he gives me £20  it could  be a (lit.bargain) deal. The Llanddewi mine has good masters (i.e. owners/investors),  namely 10 honest and pleasant men but there is not much work going on there, about 8-10 workers, but there is nobody  there that you know.
Indeed to God, my friend ( lit. my boy) William Thomas is sending a plan of the mine to MrTownsend. The world will come to its place again ( i.e. All will be well in the world again).

Anfonwyd o iPhone Alwyn/Sent from Alwyn's iPhone

> On 1 Dec 2017, at 22:17, Alwyn Evans <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> I’ll do it, but it will not reach you until tomorrow morning
> Alwyn
> 
> Anfonwyd o iPhone Alwyn/Sent from Alwyn's iPhone
> 
>> On 1 Dec 2017, at 21:38, Richard VandeWetering <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear colleagues
>> Is there a mining enthusiast out there who can cope with 18th century Welsh and would be willing to help an out-of-his-depth scholar?    I am working on a biography of Chauncy Townsend (1708-1770), London merchant, MP, government contractor, and mine adventurer in Wales and Wensleydale (and North America and Cornwall, and possibly in Scotland).  I am trying to make a list of the mid-Wales lead mines with which he was involved, and this led me to a 27 June 1763 letter  in the  “Additional Letters of the Morrises of Anglesey (Part Two)” ( p. 966-7) from an unnamed correspondent which discusses the state of mining in mid-Wales in 1763.  It mentions Chauncy Townsend and seems to make an unflattering  reference to the May 1763 marriage of his son James  to  Henrietta  Perergina  Hare, the illegitimate heiress of Lord Coleraine who presumably was worth 5000 a year.
>> Yours Richard VandeWetering
>> 
>> mae Townsend a llawer o weithie mwyn yn y wlad yma Cwymystwyth Grogwnion Sagan Las Estymtean Coginan Pengraig Ddu etc.  Dyma fe hefyd newydd gymeryd gwaith Llanvayr gan Esquire Johnes ond heb wneud dim gwaith yma Etto mae fe wedi Cymeryd y gogofe sy wrth gaio hefyd gan Esquire Johnes, ni wn ni yn y byd i beth mae Townsend Ifangc yn y wlad Ers tair wythnos ai wraig gidag e yn byw yn Grogwnion.  ychydig Cyn Clamei y priododd Townsend ag fe gadd gida yr Wriag meddant hwy ynghylch 5000  o Bynau yn y flwyddyn mae gantho fe i gid o Stiwardied ar y gweithiau mwyn yn y wlad yma 6 neu 7 ond nid oes un Etto wedi ei Settlio yn Llanvayr, mi dybygwn wrth siarad Mr Ball y Cawn riw ychydig of Stiwardieth yma os Cymerai.  yr ydus yn ei ddisgwyl yma bob Dydd nis gwn i pa un gore imi ymrwymo gidag ef neu beidio, rhowch imi air och Cyngor am hynny o ran nis gwn i pa fath wyr Bonddigion i trin yw r Townsend.  os Cytynai Cun yr Elo or wlad Chwi gewch glowed, nid oes ond dwy filltir Rhwng Llanvayr a Llanddewi ag mae yr gwaith hynny gen i Er Gwyl fihangel Diwaetha os bydd imi gytyno mi all wneud or gore or ddau waith ond nid wy yn cael yn Llanddewi ond Clych degpynt yn y flwyddyn, ag os rhoiff ynte imi ugain fe alle yr ei yn fargen, mae meistradodd da yn perthin waith Llanddwei sef 10 wyr Boddion gonest ond nid oes yno ond ychdig o waith yn mynd ymlaen oddautu o 8 i 10 o weithwyr, ond nid oes yno un ar adwaenoch chwi.
>> gwir Dduw machgen i mae william Thomas yn gyrry plann or gweithie i Mr Townsend fe ddaw r byd yw le Etto.
>> 
>> The google translation is a mess.
>> Townsend and a lot of mineral work in this country are the Sagan Las Estymtean Sweatshirt Coginan Pengraig Ddu etc. This is also the new assumption of the work of Llanvayr by Esquire Johnes but has not done any work here. Etto hefyd Cymeryd y gogofe sy'n wrthio hefyd gan Esquire Johnes, we do not know in the world what is Townsend Ifangc in the country For three weeks or a woman He lives in Shutters. Just before Clamei, who married Townsend as he was in charge of the Witch, they claimed about 5000 Bones in the year he canceled Stiwardied on the mineral works in this country 6 or 7 but no Etto has Settled in Llanvayr, I would like to speak Mr Ball that I would get a few Stewardship here if I took it. which he expected here every day, I do not know if I want to commit him or her, give me a word from that Council, as I do not know what kind of bailiffs to handle is Townsend. If Cytynai Cun yr Elo from the country you've got glowed, there is only two miles between Llanvayr and Llanddewi with that work I've had Erwwyl Dihangethahangel if I can conquer I can do a lot of work but not an egg in Llanddewi But I heard about ten times in the year, and if he gave me twenty he has been a bargain, he has a good interrogate in Llanddwei's work of 10-year-old Honors, but there is only a piece of work going on from 8 to 10 employees , but there's not one you know
>> The true God of a lad William Thomas is a planner or workie guy for Mr Townsend the world comes with Etto's place.
>> 
>> A second translation site (http://imtranslator.net/translation/welsh/to-english/translation/) is also messy.
>> Welsh to English Translation - ImTranslator.net<http://imtranslator.net/translation/welsh/to-english/translation/>
>> imtranslator.net
>> Free Online Welsh to English Online Translation Service. The Welsh to English translator can translate text, words and phrases into over 100 languages.
>> 
>> 
>> There are many weithie Townsend and order in the country here Cwymystwyth Grogwnion Blue Estymtean Coginan Pengraig Sagan Black etc.  This is it also just take Llanvayr work by Johnes Esquire but without making any work here is I have Etto take the gogofe which as also by Johnes Esquire gaio, I do not know the world's not what Townsend Ifangc in the country for three weeks is it wife e gidag lived in Grogwnion.  just before the Clamei Townsend married with I the gida Wriag gadd told them about 5000 of Bynau in the year gantho it to gid of Stiwardied on the works order in the country here 6 or 7 but no one has been Settlio Etto is Llanvayr , me dybygwn speaking Mr Ball will get a little Hill of Stiwardieth here if it would take.  the ydus would expect here every day I do not know to which one gore me commit gidag him or not, give me air alas Council for that in terms of do not know to what type s Bonddigion to treat is the Townsend.  If Cytynai Cun the Through or You get country glowed, there are only two miles between Llanvayr and Llanddewi as the work that i'm In St Michaelmas fair Diwaetha if I gytyno me can make or gore or both work but I don't have in Llanddewi but Clych degpynt in the year , as if rhoiff isn't it me twenty I could be in the deal, good work perthin meistradodd Llanddewi at 10 s Boddion honest but it is not there, but ychdig of work going on oddautu from 8 to 10 employees, but there is no one on adwaenoch WHI. the true God to little boy william Thomas at gyrry or gweithie plann to Mr Townsend will come the world is le Etto.
>> 
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