I don't know when the translations were made either, Rob, although your
example feels very mid-to-late sixteenth century. On a side note, to share
something that tickled me, in a Stamford bookshop I came across two volumes
of 'Tudor Royal Proclamations'. Edited by two gentlemen named Hughes and
Larkin :)
On 18 May 2017 at 09:07, Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Hi, dave.
>
> Well observed -- the original Statute would have been written in
> Anglo-Norman,
> so what you have in my post is a later translation. Just when the
> translations
> were made, I haven't yet been able to work out -- you'd think someone,
> somewhere
> on the Web, would deal with this, but if they do, I haven't yet found any
> pertinent reference. Probably sometime in the mid-sixteenth century, at a
> guess, when the Statutes began to be issued in Collections. The eighteenth
> century collections (by Ruffhead and Pickering) are the easiest ones to
> find,
> and these usually print the original Anglo-Norman and the English version
> side
> by side, with the English (presumably) derived from whichever version was
> first
> produced.
>
> I came on it when I was trying to track down exactly which Statute Thomas
> Harman
> refers to (both vaguely and disingenuously -- it's a long and peculiar
> story) in
> A Caveat for Common Cursitors in 1567. It's the 1383 Statute, for what
> that's
> worth, in Harman's case.
>
> "2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]" -- this is the standard way the bloody
> things
> are referred to: the year of the reign of the relevant monarch. So the one
> I
> posted was issued in the second year of the reign of Richard II -- i.e.
> 1379 --
> and it's from the 5th chapter/section of the first Statute issued in that
> year.
> Except, as I say, the original would have been written at that point in
> time in
> Anglo-Norman.
>
> Best,
>
> Robin
>
> >
> > On 18 May 2017 at 04:00 David Bircumshaw
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Rob
> >
> > Very impressive, Although it seems more proto-Elizabethan or late
> Tudor
> > than Richard Two, who, although he might not have spoke English at
> all,
> > was
> > contemporary with Chaucer, Gower and even the Pearl poet. And their
> > versions of English.
> >
> > I did though enjoy the hyperbolic expansion of the
> lingo-not-yet-by-jingo.
> > Really liked it.
> >
> > dave
> >
> > On 17 May 2017 at 09:15, Patrick McManus <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > haha nice
> > >
> > > Dunning-Kruger McManus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 17/05/2017 02:47, Doug Barbour wrote:
> > >
> > >> Oh okay, he was right at least on this: "[Trump] is thus the
> all-time
> > >> record-holder of the Dunning-Kruger effect, the phenomenon in
> which the
> > >> incompetent person is too incompetent to understand his own
> > >> incompetence.”
> > >>
> > >> But with a compliant Congress, he may still get away with being
> so…
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Doug
> > >>
> > >>> On May 16, 2017, at 7:20 PM, Bill Wootton <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Brooks may be a conservative ratbag, Doug but this article
> seemed well
> > >>> observed to me:
> > >>>
> > >>> https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/trump-
> classified-data.html
> > >>>
> > >>> Bill
> > >>>
> > >>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 11:10 am, Doug Barbour <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> It was right well found, Robin.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> A lengthy look back, & then at where we are ow (I think there
> are a
> > >>>> few
> > >>>> more local PMs you might include…?).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Bill: I wouldnt rally trust David Brooks as far as I could
> heave him,
> > >>>> but…
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Doug
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On May 16, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Bill Wootton <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Yes, I kind of presumed as much, Robin about the majority of
> it. I
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> thought
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> you had fiddled a bit to make the opening couplet. Amazing.
> Love
> > >>>>> 'him
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>> whom the word was moved'. Words move so oddly in the current
> term
> > >>>>> limited
> > >>>>> elected monarch. David Brooks on New York Times points out the
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> difficulties
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> 'trying to understand a guy whose thoughts are often just six
> > >>>>> fireflies
> > >>>>> beeping randomly in a jar'.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Bill
> > >>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 10:04 am, Robin Hamilton <
> > >>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Not my words, Bill, but an actual Act of Parliament passed in
> the
> > >>>>>> second
> > >>>>>> year of
> > >>>>>> the reign of Richard II.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Didn't turn out real well for him either, did it?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Came on it accidentally, and was quite disconcerted at how
> apposite
> > >>>>>> it
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>> certain things being uttered by a current term-limited elected
> > >>>>>> monarch.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Next down the line: the Divine Right of Presidents -- "I was
> > >>>>>> elected
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> by
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>>> people, and the people are the Voice of God, so anyone who
> objects
> > >>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> what
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> I do
> > >>>>>> is committing blasphemy, and will be dealt with accordingly."
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Robin
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On 17 May 2017 at 00:28 Bill Wootton <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Impressive accretion of moving words here, Robin.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Bill
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Wed, 17 May 2017 at 6:20 am, Robin Hamilton <
> > >>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Item, of Devisors of false News and of horrible and false
> Lyes
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> of Prelates, Dukes, Earls, Barons, and other Nobles, and
> great
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Men of the Realm, and also of the Chancellor, Treasurer,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Clerk of the Privy Seal, Steward of the King’s House,
> Justices
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> of the one Bench or of the other, and of other great
> Officers of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> the Realm, of things which by the said Prelates, Lords,
> Nobles,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> and Officers aforesaid were never spoken, done, nor
> thought, in
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> great Slander of the said Prelates, Lords, Nobles and
> Officers,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> whereby Debates and Discords might arise between the said
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Lords, or between the Lords and the Commons (which God
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> forbid), and whereof great Peril and Mischief might come to
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> all the Realm, and quick Subversion and Destruction of the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> said Realm if due remedy be not provided ; it is straitly
> de-
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> fended upon grievous pain for to eschew the said Damages and
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Perils, that from henceforth none be so hardy to devise,
> speak,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> or to tell, any false News, Lyes, or other such false
> things, of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Prelates, Lords, and of other aforesaid, whereof Discord or
> any
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Slander might arise within the same Realm, and he that doth
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> the same shall incur and have the pain another time ordained
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> thereof by the Statute of Westminster the first, which
> will, that
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> he be taken and imprisoned till he have found him of whom
> the
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> word was moved.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> 2 R. 2. st. 1. c. 5. [i.e. 1379]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
> > >>>> [log in to unmask]
> > >>>>
> > >>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > >>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Latest books:
> > >>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > >>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> > >>>> Recording Dates
> > >>>> (Rubicon Press)
> > >>>>
> > >>>> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to
> think
> > >>>> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking
> and
> > >>>> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and
> procrastination.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thomas De Quincey
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Douglas Barbour
> > >> [log in to unmask]
> > >>
> > >> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > >> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> > >>
> > >> Latest books:
> > >> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > >> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> > >> Recording Dates
> > >> (Rubicon Press)
> > >>
> > >> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to
> think
> > >> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and
> > >> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.
> > >> Thomas De Quincey
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >
>
--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
|