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Subject:

Subject: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral

From:

Justine Bayley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Fri, 16 Sep 2016 10:49:54 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (389 lines)

In all this speculation you need to remember that high alcohol contents in liquids were not possible until distillation (to separate the alcohol from wine etc) had been discovered. In northern Europe this is in late medieval times though in the Middle East the process is known rather earlier. Wikipedia says:
"Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi (c. 865 – 925/35), Persian physician; inventor of distillation of alcohol and its use in medicine; philosopher, chemist and alchemist."

Best wishes
Justine


-----Original Message-----
From: British archaeology discussion list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of BRITARCH automatic digest system
Sent: 16 September, 2016 00:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: BRITARCH Digest - 14 Sep 2016 to 15 Sep 2016 (#2016-175)

There are 3 messages totaling 394 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral (3)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Sep 2016 17:00:39 +0000
From:    Mike Weatherley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral

Of course, Eau de cologne (and most perfumes) consist of perfumed ingredients dissolved in ethanol/water (roughly 80/20 by volume) as many aromas aren't soluble in water. As such, they're roughly twice the alcoholic strength of Vodka. Thus, if anyone was either desperate enough - or lived in a culture where drinking alcohol was prohibited for religious reasons - absorbing something twice the strength of regular spirits through the skin of the wrists (and additionally, through the nasal mucosa as a result of sniffing it) might well have a... erm...calming effect on the subject. (wink)


Mike (BSc)


________________________________
From: British archaeology discussion list <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of CATHERINE STALLYBRASS <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 13 September 2016 14:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral

If for alcohol you substitute "Eau de Cologne" it sounds quite reasonable. I remember when I was a child it was used like that to calm us down when we got hysterical with rage or grief (usually the former!)

cheers

Catherine



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael <[log in to unmask]>
To: BRITARCH <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 13:36
Subject: Re: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral

On 12/09/2016 22:46, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> In the Middle East, ululation is expected at funerals.  I look forward 
> to hearing what others have to say about the alcohol, which of course 
> in many Middle Eastern countries is not allowed to be drunk.
>
> Carl
>
it's one of those regular questions - did the "sombre stiff upper lip"
come with the Victorian? Or were Victorians just sticking to a long held culture in Britain of "silent respect" rather than uluation?

For info: I've now transcribed the whole text which has some other interesting cultural features for most in Britain such as the question "who will hold your photo at the funeral" and "who gave you your heredity" (which I didn't quite understand so replaced with "who is your next of kin").

http://mons-graupius.co.uk/index.php/battle-speeches/147-the-breath-turkish-army-motivational-speech

Mons Graupius - The Breath: Turkish Army motivational speech<http://mons-graupius.co.uk/index.php/battle-speeches/147-the-breath-turkish-army-motivational-speech>
mons-graupius.co.uk
Information relating to the site of the Battle of Mons Graupius.




(This is part of a project to compare and contrast "battle speeches"
from various cultures - both the "public" versions that get recorded as great works as well as the kind of language used by real soldiers)

Mike

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* Michael <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2016 5:22 AM
> *Subject:* [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
>
> I've come across a strange translation referring to what might happen 
> to someone in Turkey if they died at their funeral. It reads:
>
> " Your neighbours are trying to calm your mother ...They are doing 
> massage to your mother's wrists with alcohol."
>
> There's clearly an expectation that the mother would need calming down 
> - but I'm unfamiliar with the proposed method. It's clearly a bad 
> translation - so I was wondering whether I should change "alcohol" to 
> something like "oil" or perfume but I can't find anything referring to 
> this "ritual". Worse, I associate rubbing things on bodies more with 
> corpses than mothers.
>
> However, the whole expectation of the behaviour of close (women) at 
> the funeral is very foreign to me. In Britain we don't expect the "mother"
> to make a scene like this - but in Turkey it appears to be a cultural 
> expectation. And in Britain if any alcohol is used I would expect it 
> to be drunk - but not too much to AVOID making a scene.
>
> Which then begs the question - how far back does this "stiff upper lip"
> culture at British funerals go? And for example, in Roman Britain (i.e.
> the combination of Eastern and British Culture) - would it be expected 
> that the close women relatives need "calming down" at a funeral, or 
> would it be more like the typical British "stiff upper lip" we see today?
>
> Mike
>
>


--
http://mons-graupius.co.uk

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Sep 2016 18:27:28 +0100
From:    Vince Russett <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral

The absorption of alcohol through mucous membranes was born out in a very real way in the early '90s: does anyone else recall sniffing vodka from a spoon at somewhat over-the-top parties? No? I'll get me coat...

Vince

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Mike Weatherley < [log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Of course, Eau de cologne (and most perfumes) consist of perfumed 
> ingredients dissolved in ethanol/water (roughly 80/20 by volume) as 
> many aromas aren't soluble in water. As such, they're roughly twice 
> the alcoholic strength of Vodka. Thus, if anyone was either desperate 
> enough - or lived in a culture where drinking alcohol was prohibited 
> for religious reasons - absorbing something twice the strength of 
> regular spirits through the skin of the wrists (and additionally, 
> through the nasal mucosa as a result of sniffing it) might well have 
> a... erm...calming effect on the subject. (wink)
>
>
> Mike (BSc)
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: British archaeology discussion list <[log in to unmask]> on 
> behalf of CATHERINE STALLYBRASS <000002c40c517c5e-dmarc- 
> [log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 13 September 2016 14:08
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
>
> If for alcohol you substitute "Eau de Cologne" it sounds quite reasonable.
> I remember when I was a child it was used like that to calm us down 
> when we got hysterical with rage or grief (usually the former!)
>
> cheers
>
> Catherine
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael <[log in to unmask]>
> To: BRITARCH <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 13:36
> Subject: Re: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
>
> On 12/09/2016 22:46, [log in to unmask] wrote:
> > In the Middle East, ululation is expected at funerals.  I look 
> > forward to hearing what others have to say about the alcohol, which 
> > of course in many Middle Eastern countries is not allowed to be drunk.
> >
> > Carl
> >
> it's one of those regular questions - did the "sombre stiff upper lip"
> come with the Victorian? Or were Victorians just sticking to a long 
> held culture in Britain of "silent respect" rather than uluation?
>
> For info: I've now transcribed the whole text which has some other 
> interesting cultural features for most in Britain such as the question 
> "who will hold your photo at the funeral" and "who gave you your 
> heredity" (which I didn't quite understand so replaced with "who is 
> your next of kin").
>
> http://mons-graupius.co.uk/index.php/battle-speeches/147-
> the-breath-turkish-army-motivational-speech
>
> Mons Graupius - The Breath: Turkish Army motivational speech<
> http://mons-graupius.co.uk/index.php/battle-speeches/147-the-breath-
> turkish-army-motivational-speech>
> mons-graupius.co.uk
> Information relating to the site of the Battle of Mons Graupius.
>
>
>
>
> (This is part of a project to compare and contrast "battle speeches"
> from various cultures - both the "public" versions that get recorded 
> as great works as well as the kind of language used by real soldiers)
>
> Mike
>
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > *From:* Michael <[log in to unmask]>
> > *To:* [log in to unmask]
> > *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2016 5:22 AM
> > *Subject:* [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
> >
> > I've come across a strange translation referring to what might 
> > happen to someone in Turkey if they died at their funeral. It reads:
> >
> > " Your neighbours are trying to calm your mother ...They are doing 
> > massage to your mother's wrists with alcohol."
> >
> > There's clearly an expectation that the mother would need calming 
> > down - but I'm unfamiliar with the proposed method. It's clearly a 
> > bad translation - so I was wondering whether I should change 
> > "alcohol" to something like "oil" or perfume but I can't find 
> > anything referring to this "ritual". Worse, I associate rubbing 
> > things on bodies more with corpses than mothers.
> >
> > However, the whole expectation of the behaviour of close (women) at 
> > the funeral is very foreign to me. In Britain we don't expect the "mother"
> > to make a scene like this - but in Turkey it appears to be a 
> > cultural expectation. And in Britain if any alcohol is used I would 
> > expect it to be drunk - but not too much to AVOID making a scene.
> >
> > Which then begs the question - how far back does this "stiff upper lip"
> > culture at British funerals go? And for example, in Roman Britain (i.e.
> > the combination of Eastern and British Culture) - would it be 
> > expected that the close women relatives need "calming down" at a 
> > funeral, or would it be more like the typical British "stiff upper lip" we see today?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://mons-graupius.co.uk
>

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 15 Sep 2016 15:11:49 -0400
From:    Eve Richardson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral

Cripes! The things I'm learning in my old age! I'll have to start sinning all over again.

Eve


On 15/09/2016 1:27 PM, Vince Russett wrote:
> The absorption of alcohol through mucous membranes was born out in a 
> very real way in the early '90s: does anyone else recall sniffing 
> vodka from a spoon at somewhat over-the-top parties? No? I'll get me coat...
>
> Vince
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Mike Weatherley < 
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Of course, Eau de cologne (and most perfumes) consist of perfumed 
>> ingredients dissolved in ethanol/water (roughly 80/20 by volume) as 
>> many aromas aren't soluble in water. As such, they're roughly twice 
>> the alcoholic strength of Vodka. Thus, if anyone was either desperate 
>> enough - or lived in a culture where drinking alcohol was prohibited 
>> for religious reasons - absorbing something twice the strength of 
>> regular spirits through the skin of the wrists (and additionally, 
>> through the nasal mucosa as a result of sniffing it) might well have 
>> a... erm...calming effect on the subject. (wink)
>>
>>
>> Mike (BSc)
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: British archaeology discussion list <[log in to unmask]> 
>> on behalf of CATHERINE STALLYBRASS <000002c40c517c5e-dmarc- 
>> [log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: 13 September 2016 14:08
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
>>
>> If for alcohol you substitute "Eau de Cologne" it sounds quite reasonable.
>> I remember when I was a child it was used like that to calm us down 
>> when we got hysterical with rage or grief (usually the former!)
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> Catherine
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: BRITARCH <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tue, 13 Sep 2016 13:36
>> Subject: Re: [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
>>
>> On 12/09/2016 22:46, [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>> In the Middle East, ululation is expected at funerals.  I look 
>>> forward to hearing what others have to say about the alcohol, which 
>>> of course in many Middle Eastern countries is not allowed to be drunk.
>>>
>>> Carl
>>>
>> it's one of those regular questions - did the "sombre stiff upper lip"
>> come with the Victorian? Or were Victorians just sticking to a long 
>> held culture in Britain of "silent respect" rather than uluation?
>>
>> For info: I've now transcribed the whole text which has some other 
>> interesting cultural features for most in Britain such as the 
>> question "who will hold your photo at the funeral" and "who gave you 
>> your heredity" (which I didn't quite understand so replaced with "who 
>> is your next of kin").
>>
>> http://mons-graupius.co.uk/index.php/battle-speeches/147-
>> the-breath-turkish-army-motivational-speech
>>
>> Mons Graupius - The Breath: Turkish Army motivational speech<
>> http://mons-graupius.co.uk/index.php/battle-speeches/147-the-breath-
>> turkish-army-motivational-speech>
>> mons-graupius.co.uk
>> Information relating to the site of the Battle of Mons Graupius.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> (This is part of a project to compare and contrast "battle speeches"
>> from various cultures - both the "public" versions that get recorded 
>> as great works as well as the kind of language used by real soldiers)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----
>>> *From:* Michael <[log in to unmask]>
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Sent:* Monday, September 12, 2016 5:22 AM
>>> *Subject:* [BRITARCH] Rubbing alcohol on wrists at funeral
>>>
>>> I've come across a strange translation referring to what might 
>>> happen to someone in Turkey if they died at their funeral. It reads:
>>>
>>> " Your neighbours are trying to calm your mother ...They are doing 
>>> massage to your mother's wrists with alcohol."
>>>
>>> There's clearly an expectation that the mother would need calming 
>>> down - but I'm unfamiliar with the proposed method. It's clearly a 
>>> bad translation - so I was wondering whether I should change 
>>> "alcohol" to something like "oil" or perfume but I can't find 
>>> anything referring to this "ritual". Worse, I associate rubbing 
>>> things on bodies more with corpses than mothers.
>>>
>>> However, the whole expectation of the behaviour of close (women) at 
>>> the funeral is very foreign to me. In Britain we don't expect the "mother"
>>> to make a scene like this - but in Turkey it appears to be a 
>>> cultural expectation. And in Britain if any alcohol is used I would 
>>> expect it to be drunk - but not too much to AVOID making a scene.
>>>
>>> Which then begs the question - how far back does this "stiff upper lip"
>>> culture at British funerals go? And for example, in Roman Britain (i.e.
>>> the combination of Eastern and British Culture) - would it be 
>>> expected that the close women relatives need "calming down" at a 
>>> funeral, or would it be more like the typical British "stiff upper lip" we see today?
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> http://mons-graupius.co.uk
>>
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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------------------------------

End of BRITARCH Digest - 14 Sep 2016 to 15 Sep 2016 (#2016-175)
***************************************************************

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