Dear Yoád,
Sorry for misspelling your name. I’ts like when people call me Cortez or Edoardo… Although I’m not offended, I prefer my real name.
Sorry again.
Eduardo Corte-Real
PhD Arch.
Associate Professor
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Av. Dom Carlos I, nº4, 1200-649 Lisboa, Portugal
T: +351 213 939 600
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No dia 23/02/2016, às 10:42, Eduardo Corte-Real A. Corte-Real <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> escreveu:
Dear Friends,
I find particularly interesting that in the week of Umberto Eco’s death, a funeral for semiotics is also being held.
I think he would be amused with Yoah’s declaration that "Semiotics is a model and a tool, it is best used for small test environments and clear and contained contexts,” and pleased by. "otherwise its generalization and abstractedness can serve only to confuse and indulge researchers with endless speculative conversation”.
His book a Theory of Semiotics published in English in 1976 (Trattato di semiotica generale in the original) is quite an example the second part of Yoah’s declaration. This, I think separates perfectly what are intellectuals from scientists and what some call theories and others don’t. Both intellectuals and scientist are researchers but whereas the first understand that their existence depends on asking questions with no answers (so they may continue doing "endless speculative conversation", scientists want to be sure that their questions have answers so they can keep asking questions and answering them. The result is that the first are only able to inspire people and maybe change their lives, whereas the later are able to produce technology and thus change people’s lives.
I really think that there is a space for intellectuals that are designers and scientist that are designers.
Eduardo Corte-Real
PhD Arch.
Associate Professor
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
[cid:D06107DC-6991-422C-90A3-827D3E65BE27]
Av. Dom Carlos I, nº4, 1200-649 Lisboa, Portugal
T: +351 213 939 600
[cid:image009.png@01D14E3A.80B12DE0]
No dia 23/02/2016, às 09:31, Yoád David Luxembourg <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> escreveu:
Dear Lily,
I mention this issue before in a previous post to this list - https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1601&L=PHD-DESIGN&P=R38346&1=PHD-DESIGN&9=A&J=on&d=No+Match%3BMatch%3BMatches&z=4
Semiotics is a model and a tool, it is best used for small test environments and clear and contained contexts, otherwise its generalization and abstractedness can serve only to confuse and indulge researchers with endless speculative conversation. Further, I believe that even when applied to small groups of community and specific niche cultures, semiotics as a science does not perform better than anthropology.
Back to your comment - I believe Evidence is all around us today as every field of research builds in some way on cognitive science and methods. Signs and signifiers, but also signified, do not exist anywhere out side the mind. Physical objects and their formal properties do, but their significance is dependent only on the user/observer's personal experience and memory of interacting with similar objects. And of course if there is no user to perceive them, these objects would not enter Saussure's signifier-signified relationship which stands in the core of semiotics.
Moving on form your anecdotal question on bio-semiotics to conceptions such as Social Memory and History, I believe these are used contextually by users to understand what things mean - these offer /ways of seeing things as/, much like Klaus's flip figures example (2006, p. 52).
Finally, If you wanted a more nuanced answer with specific suggestions to literature. Then I guess a more nuanced question - with framing of bio-semiotics and suggestions to lit. - would have been preferred in the first place.
Otherwise, based on my social memory and my personal experience of reading posts on this list, your question is understood (from its code, structure, selection and combination of words) as belonging to anecdotal casual conversation.
Suggested references (and this is just the tip of the iceberg, compared to how much has been discovered on the cognitive perceptual mechanism with which we link meaning from "mental dictionary" to perceived and recognized structures in the radiant flow of sensory information):
- Correia, J., Formisano E., Valente G., Hausfeld l., Jansma B., & Bonte M. (2014). Brain‐based Translation: fMRI
Decoding of Spoken Words in Bilinguals Reveals Language‐Independent Semantic Representations in Anterior
Temporal Lobe. The Journal of Neuroscience , 34 (1):332‐8. doi: 10.1523/JNEUROSCI.1302‐13.2014.
- Goel, V. (1995). Sketches of Thought. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
- Goel, V. and Grafman, J. (2000). Role of the Rignt Preforntal Cortex in Ill‐structured Planning. Cognitive
Neuropsychology , 17(5), 415‐436.
- Gibson, J. J. (1986). The Ecological Approach to Visual Perception. New York, NY: Psychology Press.
- Henley M. K. (2015). Comparison of Shape, Space, and Time Judgments in Expert Dancers and Novices Evidence that Production Enhances
Perception. Journal of Dance Medicine & Science,19 (3),: 103-9. doi: 10.12678/1089-313X.19.3.103
- Higuchi, S., Chaminade, T., Imamizu, H., and Kawato, M. (2009). Shared neural correlates for language and tool use.
in Broca’s area. Neuroreport , 20(15), 1376‐81. doi: 10.1097/WNR.0b013e3283315570.
- Jakobson’s Functions of Language. (2015). Retrieved August 20, 2015, from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jakobson%27s_functions_of_language
Lee, K., Jiangang L., Jun L., Lu F., Ling L., & Jie T. (2014). Seeing Jesus in Toast; Neural and Behavioral Correlates of
Face Pareidolia. Cortex, 53, 60‐77. doi: 10.1016/j.cortex.2014.01.013
Saussure, F. (1983). Course in General Linguistics. Transl. Harris, R. London, England: Duckworth.
/and of course:/
- Krippendorff, K. (2006). The Semantic turn; A New Foundation for Design. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press.
Best,
*Yoád David Luxembourg *
BA (DAE <http://www.designacademy.nl/>,2004), MA (MAHKU <http://www.mahku.nl/>,2006)
Ph.D (University of Porto <http://www.up.pt/>, 2015)
Creative Direction at Elementum by Daniela Pais <http://www.luxuryistohavesimplethings.com/>
LinkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/yoad-david-luxembourg/5b/95a/69a>
On 23-2-2016 05:20, Diaz-Kommonen Lily wrote:
Dear Klaus,
Social memory and history, that are quite relevant in our current situation of crisis, cannot be reduced to perception and interaction. A more nuanced answer with specific suggestions to literature rather than general (hence unverifiable) all encompassing statements would have been preferred.
Yours truly,
Lily
^----^
o o
∞
Professor, Dr. Lily Diaz-Kommonen
Head of Research
Department of Media/ Media Lab Helsinki
Aalto University, School of Arts,
Design and Architecture
Miestentie 3, Otaniemi 05021, Espoo
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On 23.2.2016, at 0.14, Klaus Krippendorff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
dear lily,
i couldn't have given you a better answer to your question as yoad did.
klaus
-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Yoád David Luxembourg
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 2:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Semantics of design
Dear Diaz,
I believe bio-semiotics is the way in which semioticians are trying to stay relevant, despite the latest discoveries in cognitive science and perception which makes semiotics obsolete.
These days many of the cognitive mechanism behind recognizing a signifier and connecting it with signified are being researched. They are mostly part of the perceptual system, which enables us humans to understand and conceptualize our reality and ecology, as well what things mean. The meaning of artifacts is learned through interaction and it is the interaction with artifacts which preserve what things may mean.
Semiotics is becoming redundant in my opinion, the only valid part of it are the structures of communication it offers, and even that is linked these days with post-structuralism and performativity.
Best,
*Yoád David Luxembourg *
BA (DAE <http://www.designacademy.nl/>,2004), MA (MAHKU
<http://www.mahku.nl/>,2006)
Ph.D (University of Porto <http://www.up.pt/>, 2015) Creative Direction at Elementum by Daniela Pais <http://www.luxuryistohavesimplethings.com/>
LinkedIn <http://nl.linkedin.com/pub/yoad-david-luxembourg/5b/95a/69a>
On 22-2-2016 17:13, Diaz-Kommonen Lily wrote:
Dear Klaus,
What about this idea of Biosemiotics? How would you relate it (if in any way) to Semantics?
BR. Lily
^----^
o o
∞
Professor, Dr. Lily Diaz-Kommonen
Head of Research
Department of Media/ Media Lab Helsinki
Aalto University, School of Arts,
Design and Architecture
Miestentie 3, Otaniemi 05021, Espoo
--------------------------------------------------
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<http://sysrep.aalto.fi>
On 22.2.2016, at 18.01, Klaus Krippendorff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
hi jude,
you find the reason for distinguishing the semantic turn in design from semiotics in chapter eight.
my departure from semiotics can be found in wittgenstein's equation of meanings with use, arising in language games, human interactions, now including guiding human interfaces with artifacts.
semi-otics fundamentally advocates a two world conception, the world of signs and the world of referents. i realize of course that some semioticians acknowledge signs of signs and whole hierarchies of representation -- see bertrand russell's theory of logical types. although some talk of semiosis as the process of making something into signs, semiotics has little space for the kind of interactivity and processes that contemporary design has to deal with. nor does it easily deal with conflicting discourses enacting different conceptions and the possibility of polysemy, that something can be interpreted freely without a priori meanings.
klaus
-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CHUA Soo Meng Jude (GPL, PLS)
Sent: Monday, February 22, 2016 12:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Semantics of design
We've been reading Klaus' The Semantic Turn, which is really delightful to read.
I am very sympathetic to its central ideas.
My favorite line is "Deinitions focus attention on what matters" (p3)
I remember someone distinguishing the "Semantic" account of design from the "semiotic" one, but have not been able to locate that post. Would anyone be able to explain the difference again?
Thanks in advance
Jude
National Institute of Education (Singapore) http://www.nie.edu.sg
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