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Subject:

Re: Strange little marks

From:

Richard Wright <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 5 May 2015 08:49:01 +0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Hi Aurélie



Not formic acid, as your experiment showed. Also not formic acid for the reason that dilute formic acid is one of the favoured methods of cleaning calcium carbonate concretions off bone. The bone apatite resists that, and other, organic acids.



I think your marks have the same form  as those illustrated by Soren Blau as Fig. 4 in Palestine Exploration Quarterly, 138, 1 (2006), 13-26.



https://app.box.com/s/hoqadunmg8t8i57d9uwokevk59rh8jzc



She joined with Huchet et al Journal of Archaeological Science 40 (2013) 3793-3803, where such holes were described as 'unique' but attributed to some species of dermestid beetle.



I hope you, myself and Christian can now  wake up in the early hours of the morning without wondering about holes in bone!



Richard



-------- Original Message ----------



       Hi Christian,



 I liked your idea of ants. The picture in Gauthier isn't very well

defined (in my version of the paper) so it's hard to say if it's the

same as my mystery traces. So I went and fetched some formic acid, and

tried to put it on some bones and.... nothing. Like, really nothing.

The bone has just absorbed the acid, like it was water! 

 So for now the mystery remains. I'm now trying to contact a forensic

pathologist, maybe they'll have an idea.

Do you (or anybody else) have a pdf of Proschwitz 2002 that you could

send me?



 I'm still listening for any other suggestions!



 Until then,



 Cheers!



 Aurélie 



 --



	Aurélie Guidez

 Doctorante

[log in to unmask] [1]

[log in to unmask] [2]

 [3]

 UMR 7044 - Archimède

 Ostéothèque du Musée Zoologique de Strasbourg

 29 boulevard de la Victoire

 F - 67000 Strasbourg 

http://archimede.unistra.fr/membres/doctorants/aurelie-guidez/ [4]

  Le 26/04/2015 17:26, Christian Küchelmann a écrit :



	Dear Aurelie, dear Richard, my last mail was written as a first

impression from abroad without being able to check my literature. I

checked the examples of chemical corrosion I could find in the

references when I was back in my lab , but I could not find anything

that resembles your traces. There are some good examples of digestive

acid corrosion (e.g. in Andrews 1990 amongst others) but these traces

of liquid corrosion always affect complete areas of bone surfaces and

do not produce distinct marks like the ones on your bones. So Richard

is most probably right in dismissing my suggestion. Following up

Richards suggestion of insect feeding traces I came across Gautier

(1993, 515, fig. 2.3), who shows traces of what he assumes to be made

by ants. In the picture of a turtle carapace these are much denser

than on your bone and more like ditches but might be worth

considering, especially because ants use acids, which may be an

explanation for the rounded edges of the marks that caused my initial

doubt towards the traces of the more mechanical action of other

insects mandibles. Kaiser (2000) for instances discusses insect

feeding traces which he attributes to adult insects mandibles. They

look different from your marks. Probably unlikely because of the shape

of the marks, but what about snails... (see von Proschwitz 2002). Like

Richard and Jean-Bernard I am curious about the final answer of the

riddle. Best Christian References: # Andrews, Peter (1990): Owls,

Caves and Fossils, London # Gautier, Achilles (1993): Trace Fossils in

Archaeozoology. – Journal of Archaeological Science 20, 511-523 #

Kaiser, Thomas (2000): Proposed Fossil Insect Modification to Fossil

Mammalian Bone from Plio-Pleistocene Hominid-Bearing Deposits of

Laetoli (Northern Tanzania). – Annals of the Entomological Society

of America 93, 693-700 # von Proschwitz, Ted (2002): Tierknochen als

Kalkquellen für landlebende Mollusken. in: Falkner, Margit / Groh,

Klaus / Specht, Martin C. D. (eds.): Collectanea Malacologica,

519-524, Hackenheim   

  



Links:

------

[1] mailto:[log in to unmask]

[2] mailto:[log in to unmask]

[3] http://www.unistra.fr

[4] http://archimede.unistra.fr/membres/doctorants/aurelie-guidez/


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