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CONTAMINATED-LAND-STRATEGIES  April 2015

CONTAMINATED-LAND-STRATEGIES April 2015

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Subject:

Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

From:

"Thomas, Russell" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Thomas, Russell

Date:

Mon, 27 Apr 2015 13:11:25 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (1 lines)

Darren 

Thanks for the plug, just to clarrify we have been working on the composition of Coal Tar (PAH, alkylated derivatives and NSO heterocyclic compounds), rather than coal. I agree it would be very interesting to analyse the composition of other PAH sources including UK coals from varying regions to do a comparative study. One benefit of such a library is that it would less smelly and easier to look after than our tar library.

Our work has proven if you try hard enough you can differentiate different source processes for what appear very similar products. This information is very useful and can provide information on the mobility of the tar in the environment and stop people making the wrong assumptions. Beyond assigning liability, it is the understanding over the properties of coal tars that makes detailed forensic analysis of tar beneficial, as all tars are not created equal.  

Best Regards 
Russell
  

Dr Russell Thomas
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-----Original Message-----
From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Beriro, Darren J.
Sent: 27 April 2015 10:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

Hi Chris,

Compound specific isotopes can be used to derive a more accurate measure of the source of PAH - such analyses are unfortunately expensive and require considerable analytical expertise. Differentiating between PAH in heterogeneous samples is difficult i.e. which ratio is stronger / more dominant? Ratios between low molecular weight and high molecular weight PAH may be useful and complement evidence on site history etc. There are also other ratios you may wish to try to support your preliminary observation. See attached paper for some examples / references.

As a community, it would be very useful to collate a library of PAH concentrations for end members e.g. wood ash, railway sleepers, coal etc. to support diagnostic methods. Russell Thomas' and his collaborators have completed work on PAH composition in coal that would contribute to this.

Best wishes,

Darren

-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------
Darren Beriro
Medical Geology
Environmental Modelling

British Geological Survey
Keyworth
Nottingham
NG12 5GG

Direct dial:    0115 936 3479
Swtichboard:    0115 936 3100
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________________________________________
From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Taylor, Christopher [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 10:31 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

Right, I have done the double ratio plots, and the source is coal derived. I have attached the plot.

This must be a legacy of historic practices, as I don't know of any plot holders who bring ash from their fireplaces/coal burning stoves to their allotments. Just how persistent are PAHs in soil that is regularly worked for growing veg?

Also, plant derived ash is definitely present, but if the PAHs detected in the lab analysis are coal derived, does this imply that the PAH concentrations of the wood ash are negligible in comparison, i.e. do  we have a mixture of the two ash types where a dominant more highly concentrated coal derived PAH is dominating the results?

This is all I have found on the composition of wood ash, from the following paper: http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/use_of_ash_in_forestry.pdf/$FILE/use_of_ash_in_forestry.pdf (thanks to Jonathan Parry for the link)

Polyaromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs)
Data quoted by Someshwar from Diebel et al. (1992) indicate that the types of PAHs found in wood ash are those of the two and three ring constituents, which are less toxic than the four and five ring compounds.
Naphthalene proved the most plentiful in his study (1.6 mg/kg), but many compounds were below detection levels in the samples. In a recent study in Switzerland wood ash derived from a pure burn at 550 – 650 ºC was added to mineral soils, and monitored for both PAH and PCB compounds (Bundt et al., 2001). The wood ash was found to have high concentrations of PAHs (the sum of 20 types equated to 16.8 mg/kg). However, the PCB addition to soils from the wood ash was low (totalling 14 types which equated to 3.4μg/kg) . The exact nature of the wood burned was not recorded.

I imagine that the temperature of the fire, type and age of plant material etc, all have a role to play in the PAH composition. Seems like a great MSc/PhD project to investigate the PAH composition of purely plant derived ash.


Regards

Christopher Taylor
Enforcement Officer
Regulatory Services
Brent Council

Tel: 020 8937 5159

www.brent.gov.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Russell Corbyn
Sent: 23 April 2015 16:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

Now there is a sensible scientific approach, not just an idea!

Not that they (double ratio plots) are at exceptionally accurate but there are so many other sources of deposition for PAHs and their attachment to fugitive dusts from exhausts, fire depositions, weathered macadam dust, spilt oils and so on. They are ubiquitous and it would give an approximation and the grouping of data would become immediately apparent.

I now have several hundred macadam PAH analyses and there is good agreement with the vast majority of data. It also becomes apparent what level of PAH is noise. With the levels of most environmental soil PAH analysis being quite noisy due to the distribution being in reality quite close to the limit of detection of tests (and let us not forget the lab error bars that must be applied to that) I feel sure that there would be substantially more noise than in my macadam samples.

I don't like the "let's just look at BaP level" approach to PAH provenance assessment because it is a very narrow view and tells us not very much.

Cheers

Russell



-----Original Message-----
From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mark Henderson
Sent: 23 April 2015 11:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

It would be interesting to see the whole BaP set with  fluoranthene, pyrene, BaA and chrysene. You could then plug them into a double ratio plot and see if they point to a single source.

Just an idea

Regards

Mark C Henderson BSc(Hons) MSc DIC MIEnvSc Technical Director
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-----Original Message-----
From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Taylor, Christopher
Sent: 23 April 2015 07:57
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

Hi Chris

Sure. Here are the BaP results from 7 random allotments.

3.44    17.70   26.30   5.97    7.20    2.93    9.45    15.12   12.25   14.73
1.58    2.17    0.64    2.56    3.20    7.14    2.85    0.85    0.85    6.37
0.83    <0.05   <0.05   0.98    8.72    0.59    3.47    0.32    3.16    0.70
3.48    1.87    5.40    2.54    3.71    2.34    0.67    8.56    1.73    1.96    2.02    11.67   2.52    10.86
2.69    1.95    8.11    12.43   7.73    0.58    8.99    8.69    14.17   5.65    3.56    5.86    3.32    3.62    7.46    6.13    7.63    6.54    9.59    3.52    3.20    3.78    0.83    7.42    4.74    3.55    9.95    4.19
3.60    3.13    5.33    5.13    3.96
1.02    0.99    1.38    2.32    1.02    2.44    2.44    3.16


Regards

Christopher Taylor
Enforcement Officer
Regulatory Services
Brent Council

Tel: 020 8937 5159

www.brent.gov.uk


-----Original Message-----
From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Dainton
Sent: 22 April 2015 23:33
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Wood ash / Allotment BaP

Neil & Chris

Can you share the BaP results (just the numbers will do) from the allotment testing you've undertaken so the List can get a feel of the range of BaP numbers encountered, rather than just min - max etc.

Cheers

Chris Dainton

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