JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  March 2015

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION March 2015

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: ID for an Instrument of the Passion

From:

Genevra Kornbluth <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 9 Mar 2015 11:34:48 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (175 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Since there is considerable interest in this image, I have just posted 
my own photos to the web:
http://www.kornbluthphoto.com/MNWManSorrows.html
It is not yet connected to the rest of my site or indexed.
All further comments are welcome!
Genevra

On 3/9/2015 10:27 AM, Heintzelman, Matthew wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> One or two suggestions:
>
> Indeed, the man in the Jew's hat is spitting at Jesus, a common image of the taunting during the trial. See esp. images in the various copies of the Speculum Humanae Salvationis/Mirror of Human Salvation, where the association of this act with the Jews is exaggerated. This image provides a balance to the hand pointing at Jesus, also in a sign of taunting on the Cross (think: "he claimed he was the Son of God").
>
> The hand on the right appears to be holding a bundle of sticks or some other device used for beating Jesus (again, see various images in the Speculum: http://cdm.csbsju.edu/cdm/ref/collection/HMMLClrMicr/id/19645 -- the upper left corner, from a manuscript in Cologne, Germany).  Finally, the two crossed rods may be a reminder of the Crowning with thorns, which also appears in manuscripts of the Speculum with four men pushing down on the crown with crossed rods (http://cdm.csbsju.edu/cdm/ref/collection/HMMLClrMicr/id/19646, again the upper left corner) .
>
> Peace,
>
> Matt H.
>
> Curator, Austria/Germany Study Center; Rare Book Cataloger, Hill Museum&  Manuscript Library (HMML)
> Saint John's University, Collegeville, Minnesota 56321-7300
> Phone:  320-363-2795; Fax:  320-363-3222
> http://www.hmml.org
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ut in omnibus glorificetur Deus (1 Peter 4:11 / RB 57.9)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Judith K. Golden
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 8:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] ID for an Instrument of the Passion
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Going back to the crossed rods...there are images of Christ crowned with thorns, with two men holding crossed poles/rods, placing or pushing the crown of thorns on to the head of Christ, as in Princeton University Library ms Garrett 57, fol. 10r.
>
> http://ica.princeton.edu/images/princeton/ga57.010rb.jpg
>
> Judith K. Golden, Ph.D.
> Reader
> Index of Christian Art
> A3 McCormick Hall
> Princeton University
> Princeton, NJ 08544-1018
>
> [log in to unmask]
> 609-258-7144
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ms B M Cook
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 4:38 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] ID for an Instrument of the Passion
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> A slightly off topic comment - Why can't we have reproductions of this on our Easter cards ? They'd be an improvement on the ubiquitous rabbit!!
>
> Brenda
>
> Brenda M. Cook
> Independent Scholar
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Dillon
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 4:41 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] ID for an Instrument of the Passion
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Just so. As noted in Wikipedia, s.v. "Arma Christi"
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arma_Christi>:
> "Sometimes the heads of figures from the Passion are shown, including Judas, Caiaphas, or the man who mocked Christ spitting in Christ's face."
>
> Since not all will take Wikipedia at face value all the time, here's a little confirmation from BL, MS Royal 6 E VI, fol. 15r, that what's depicted is spittle and not smoke (see at center, second row from top: _sputum in facie christi_):
> http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/ILLUMINBig.ASP?size=big&IllID=45207
>
> Some other instances of the image:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Heures_de_Mar%C3%A9chal_de_Boucicaut_-_Arma_Christi.jpg
> http://www.sagen.at/fotos/showphoto.php/photo/35512/size/big/cat/
> http://www.wallraf.museum/uploads/tx_imagecycle/Umbrisch_ChristusSchmerzensmann_WRM_0744_01.jpg
>
> Stephen is of course quite right about the Jew's hat.
>
> Best again,
> John Dillon
>
>
> On 03/08/15, Diana Hiller wrote:
>> The chap in the hat is, I suggest, spitting on Christ: Matthew 26:67
>> for example.
>> Diana
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 2:28 PM, stephen Morris
>> <[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask])" target="1">[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>>
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>> Rick:
>>>
>>> I think I have some of the possible answers (see below), but not
>>> all. I am eagerly awaiting to see what others say; this is a
>>> fascinating thread!
>>>
>>> The hands are those of the soldiers who slapped and buffeted Christ
>>> while he was blinded, taunting him, "Tell us who buffeted you, if
>>> you are a prophet."
>>>
>>> The man with the strange hat is wearing what's commonly called a
>>> "Jew's Hat," which usually indicates a prophet or Old Testament
>>> figure but here I think it indicates that he is Ciaphas, the high
>>> priest who handed Jesus over to the Romans. Or Annas, his fellow
>>> priestly authority but I'm not sure what the smoke signifies.
>>> Perhaps his false testimony? Or his inadvertent prophecy that is was
>>> better for one man to die on behalf of the people?
>>>
>>> Those are definitely the 3 nails above the head of the Virgin.
>>>
>>> One of the crossed sticks would have been the reed given to Christ
>>> as an imitation sceptre during the mockery by the soldiers. The
>>> other would be the reed on which a vinegar-soaked sponge was raised
>>> to his lips during the Crucifixion.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure why those particular numbers on the dice. Maybe 4
>>> evangelists, 5 senses, and 6 i-don't-know-what. Weren't 15 candles
>>> used at Tenebrae during Holy Week?
>>>
>>> Like I said, I'm looking to forward to what others have to say.
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>>
>>> On March 8, 2015, at 10:22 PM, richard legault
>>> <[log in to unmask](javascript:main.compose()>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>>
>>> I'd be curious to know what people make of the less obvious symbols
>>> such
>>> as:
>>>
>>> The three disembodied right hands to the right of the cross. Is one
>>> holding a barely visible purse, containing perhaps 30 pieces of silver?
>>> The smoke emanating from the bust of I'm not sure whom. Could this
>>> be Pilate whose disembodied hands are being washed? If so, why the
>>> smoke and the odd-looking headwear?
>>> The three somethings atop the halo of the woman. Three Nails perhaps?
>>> The crossed sticks between the woman and the cross.
>>> The dice represent the soldiers' casting of lots for Jesus' robe,
>>> but why fifteen, the sum of four, five and six?
>>>

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: subscribe medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: unsubscribe medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/medieval-religion

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager