So "stuffing the modernisms of other languages/cultures"?
L.
>
On 24 November 2014 at 15:59, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> The word "issue" nowadays is roughly the same in meaning as "stuff." (Oh,
> yes, I exaggerate, but not by much.)
>
> On Monday, November 24, 2014, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Doug
> >
> > I apologise for this question. I have to ask but am not trying to make
> fun.
> > When you say:
> >
> > >I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
> > anglo-centric,
> > thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures.
> >
> >
> > and say "issuing", do you mean "problematising"?
> >
> >
> > I first came across the word "issue" as an alternative to "problem" or
> > "mistake" etc, a way by corporations it seemed to me of rewriting a
> > complaint, making it less worrying for them. I am due later to write to
> > Centrica, who deal in gas of all kinds over here, who have expressed
> regret
> > that I have issues when what I said was: they never answer
> communications!
> >
> > If I read you correctly, this is a use of the word where the transition
> is
> > complete. BUT for all I know it is commonplace over there. I haven't
> > crossed the Atlantic in 2 and a half years.
> >
> > Really a mere inquiry
> >
> > L
> >
> >
> > On 22 November 2014 at 22:07, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > > I take your point(s), Lawrence.
> > >
> > > Indeed, it's clear the many rods of 'modernism's Britain were confused
> &
> > > confusing (certainly overlapping in many odd ways).
> > >
> > > I do think Donald Davie got a lot right in his Under Briggflatts, &
> that
> > > his account of the various streams is useful.
> > >
> > > I think you're right that some of us (like me) tend to be too
> > > anglo-centric, thus issuing the modernisms of other languages/cultures.
> > As
> > > someone limited to the English language, I only know such work through
> > > translation, but it still allows for a lot. Yet, because what I learned
> > > most from are works in english, even there I suspect I red poetry from
> > > other languages through the english language poetics most important to
> > me.
> > > Thus, how I read Celan, for example.
> > >
> > > Still, a useful nudge to think more subtly & in context(s)...
> > >
> > > Doug
> > > On Nov 21, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]
> > <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Walking to my place of work this morning I was thinking of all the
> > > things I
> > > > was going to say - and most of it I haven't - in reply
> > > > One was picking up on the mention of Hardy. & I wanted to aver my
> high
> > > > regard for those poems & also a lot of the modernist push... but I
> > wanted
> > > > to say that it ain't so simple(resisting the temptation to go all ira
> > > > gershwin there) & thomas would have been one of my examples...
> well,the
> > > > example, but I was sure there were others. I'm not sure about that
> now.
> > > But
> > > > Edward Thomas certainly
> > > >
> > > > so ta for that
> > > >
> > > > & I was also going to say that it gets muddling once one steps out of
> > the
> > > > anglo world & away from Ez or can do unless one does a great deal of
> > work
> > > > Work's ok, but there's not always time
> > > >
> > > > I have a high regard for Ritsos, but my Greek is nowhere near good
> > > enough.
> > > > And my background reading is still undone decades after I stopped
> > > tramping
> > > > around Greece. So I have access to a body of work that's just sort of
> > > there
> > > > inexplicably in a largely empty room in my head
> > > >
> > > > a bit like Syd Barrett sitting there and I'm not quite sure who he is
> > but
> > > > he's very familiar
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > > and the oddity of how some of us start and stop with enthusiasms.
> > > > Somewhere between pre dawn and my first coffee, that crack of
> > Meliville's
> > > > about passing a coffin factory went through my mind and I decided
> that
> > > next
> > > > I shall read again Moby Dick
> > > >
> > > > that's all I have to say
> > > >
> > > > nice w/e all
> > > >
> > > > L
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > On 21 November 2014 16:48, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]
> > <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> [poem of the day from
> > > >> Poetry Foundation.org]
> > > >>
> > > >> The Thrush
> > > >> When Winter's ahead,
> > > >> What can you read in November
> > > >> That you read in April
> > > >> When Winter's dead?
> > > >>
> > > >> I hear the thrush, and I see
> > > >> Him alone at the end of the lane
> > > >> Near the bare poplar's tip,
> > > >> Singing continuously.
> > > >>
> > > >> Is it more that you know
> > > >> Than that, even as in April,
> > > >> So in November,
> > > >> Winter is gone that must go?
> > > >>
> > > >> Or is all your lore
> > > >> Not to call November November,
> > > >> And April April,
> > > >> And Winter Winter--no more?
> > > >>
> > > >> But I know the months all,
> > > >> And their sweet names, April,
> > > >> May and June and October,
> > > >> As you call and call
> > > >>
> > > >> I must remember
> > > >> What died into April
> > > >> And consider what will be born
> > > >> Of a fair November;
> > > >>
> > > >> And April I love for what
> > > >> It was born of, and November
> > > >> For what it will die in,
> > > >> What they are and what they are not,
> > > >>
> > > >> While you love what is kind,
> > > >> What you can sing in
> > > >> And love and forget in
> > > >> All that's ahead and behind.
> > > >>
> > > >> Edward Thomas 1878-1917
> > > >> [PF says:
> > > >> Thomas wrote his first poems in 1914 at the urging of the American
> > poet
> > > >> Robert Frost,
> > > >> with whom he forged a friendship during Frost's years in England.
> ....
> > > >> in 1915 he enlisted in the infantry and was killed two years later
> in
> > > the
> > > >> Battle of Arras,
> > > >> while the first edition of his Poems (1917) was being prepared for
> > > press.]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > Douglas Barbour
> > > [log in to unmask] <javascript:;>
> > >
> > > Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
> Continuation
> > 2
> > > (UofAPress).
> > > Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
> > >
> > > that we are only
> > > as we find out we are
> > >
> > > Charles Olson
> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
>
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