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ARCHAEOBOTANY  November 2014

ARCHAEOBOTANY November 2014

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Subject:

Re: SV: Help with macro-remain ID.

From:

BIAX <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

The archaeobotany mailing list <[log in to unmask]>, BIAX <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:44:04 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (258 lines)

Dear All,

I absolutely agree, these are not tubers of Ranunculus ficaria but also
not Equisetum tubers. The presence of scars over the surface left by the
deterioration of adventitious roots but also the morphology suggest yet
another species. I think these are tubers which were formed as (terminal)
swellings on system of rhizomes. It looks to me as these are either sedge-
or grass family, which is not a great addition to the discussion at this
point. What would definitely help is to check the internal anatomy.
Peter, if you have wood charcoal microscope at your lab you could briefly
check for the presence of vascular tissue in transverse section of your
tubers. In both, grasses and sedges vascular bundles should be randomly
placed within the parenchyma tissue. The type of vascular bundles however,
are different in sedges and in grasses.   To see that difference you would
have to exam your specimens under a SEM microscope. What I could offer is,
send me one or two of your specimens I will take them with me to one of
the next SEM sessions. I can imagine, it is frustrated to have so many
specimens and not be able to point out the parent plant.

With best wishes

Lucy Kubiak-Martens



Met vriendelijke groet,
Dr. Lucy Kubiak-Martens
Archeobotanist
Biax Consult Biological Archaeology & Environmental Reconstruction
Hogendijk 134
1506 AL Zaandam
Nederland
[log in to unmask]
T +31 (0)75 616 10 10
F +31 (0)75 614 99 80
www.biax.nl













>  Hi, Wendy Carruthers and I  recovered similar remains from West
> Heslerton, they were identified as possibly Carex sp.rhizomes  and
> interpreted as being from the burnt remains of turf walls as they were
> associated with Grubenhäuser. The report is still un-published but we
> produced a poster for theIWGP conference in 2001 at Shefield and some of
> our work was published by Hall and Huntley in the English Heritage
> RESEARCH DEPARTMENT REPORT SERIES no. 87-2007
>  http://services.english-heritage.org.uk/ResearchReportsPdfs/087_2007WEB.pdf
> (page 99 on-wards)unfortunately we have no photos of the remains but
> there are line drawings that I produced for the poster.
> Best wishes
> Kath Hunter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Inés López López-Dóriga" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 November, 2014 12:52:02 PM
> Subject: Re: SV: Help with macro-remain ID.
>
> Dear all,
>
> What about Cyperus roots? I am particularly thinking of Cyperus fuscus,
> but
> other species might be also similar. But I agree Equisetum could be worth
> checking.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Inés López-Dóriga
>
> On 18 November 2014 12:10, Monckton, Angela <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>  Dear All,
>>
>> I have also seen tubers like these, they have sometimes occurred with
>> what
>> I thought were tiller bases of smaller grasses and culm fragments.
>> These
>> tubers seem to have roots growing from them and I thought they may be
>> stem
>> bases of larger grasses but I do not have any reference material to
>> identify them.
>>
>> I thought they may be uprooted plant material used as kindling.
>>
>> Angela
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* The archaeobotany mailing list [[log in to unmask]] on
>> behalf of Stefanie Klooß [[log in to unmask]]
>> *Sent:* 18 November 2014 11:37
>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Subject:* Re: SV: Help with macro-remain ID.
>>
>>  Dear all,
>>
>> I agree with Peter, Ficaria root bulbs should be even on the surface and
>> show a cell pattern. Moreover their shape is well defined oval with two
>> pointed ends or pear (club) shaped.
>> These remains here have a lot of root branchings like buds.
>> I also have seen such remains, but I can not either identify them.
>> Once we have thought about the roots of horsetail - Equisetum, but never
>> checked.
>>
>> All the best
>> Stefanie
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dipl.-Prähist.
>> Stefanie Klooß
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>> Tel.: 0431 / 880 3374
>>
>> Institut für Ur- und Frühgeschichte
>> Christian-Albrechts-Universität zu Kiel
>> Johanna Mestorf Strasse 2-4
>> 24118 Kiel
>>
>> DFG-Schwerpunktprogramm 1400
>> „Frühe Monumentalität und Soziale Differenzierung“
>> Projekt: Differenzierung von Landwirtschaft und Umwelt als Grundlage
>> früher Monumentalität im Neolithikum
>> Norddeutschlandshttp://www.schwerpunkt-monumente.de/
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 18.11.2014 10:38, schrieb Henriksen, Peter Steen:
>>
>>  Dear Mia, Otto and Bas
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank´s for the suggestions, but I don´t think that it can be neither
>> Arrhenatherum nor Ranunculus ficaria. The “tubers” has a lot of
>> remains
>> from roots on the surface, which neither of the two proposed species
>> have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter Steen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
>>
>> Peter Steen Henriksen
>> Museumsinspektør / Curator
>>
>> [image: Besøg Nationalmuseets hjemmeside] <http://www.natmus.dk/>
>>
>> Miljøarkæologi og Materialeforskning / Environmental Archaeology and
>> Materials Science
>> Telefon / Phone +45 41 20 61 79
>>
>> [image: Besøg udstillingen MENNESKER I KRIGEN 1864 på Nationalmuseet]
>> <http://natmus.dk/nationalmuseet/udstillinger/saerudstillinger/>
>>
>> *Fra:* Brinkkemper, Otto [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> <[log in to unmask]>]
>> *Sendt:* 18. november 2014 09:51
>> *Til:* The archaeobotany mailing list; Henriksen, Peter Steen
>> *Emne:* RE: Help with macro-remain ID.
>>
>>
>>
>> Most probably Ficaria verna/Ranunculus ficaria. This species is often
>> found in Neolithic and sometimes younger contexts in the Netherlands
>> too.
>> The roots are poisonous, but after roasting they become edible and often
>> occur in association with other food plants, so likely also consumed.
>>
>>
>>
>> With best wishes,
>>
>>
>>
>> oTTo
>>
>>
>>
>> *Van:* The archaeobotany mailing list
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> <[log in to unmask]>] *Namens *Henriksen, Peter Steen
>> *Verzonden:* dinsdag 18 november 2014 8:53
>> *Aan:* [log in to unmask]
>> *Onderwerp:* Help with macro-remain ID.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>>
>>
>> In a Bronze Age plow layer from the northern part of Jutland in Denmark
>> I
>> have found thousands of these carbonized root parts. Does anyone have an
>> idea of the species.
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> Peter Steen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
>>
>> Peter Steen Henriksen
>> Museumsinspektør / Curator
>>
>> [image: Besøg Nationalmuseets hjemmeside] <http://www.natmus.dk/>
>>
>> Miljøarkæologi og Materialeforskning / Environmental Archaeology and
>> Materials Science
>> Telefon / Phone +45 41 20 61 79
>>
>>
>>
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