Hi Deanna,
It's good to see that the thesaurus is being used. For those that haven't yet seen this thesaurus it can be downloaded in .pdf or .csv formats on the FISH terminologies page:
http://fishforum.weebly.com/download-fish-terminology.html
All the best
Paul
____________________________________
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Deanna Groom [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 October 2014 11:10
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Session 2 - Landforms, sites and palaeoenvironmental information: Q1 - Seascapes Characterisation
Dear Colleagues,
This message may not be immediately valid to your discussions today, but what caught my eye was the definition of 'Monument' as described below and the inclusion of 'Seascape'.
I expect that many of you are aware of English Heritage's Historic Seascapes Characterisation initiative and the standard terminology that was generated to define individual character areas.
We've recently begun to experiment taking those word lists through into the NMRW to accompany a programme of work to look at digitising extents of, say, reefs that have caused a high number of shipping casualties over time; areas of overfalls or water turbulence which again have caused a significant number of founderings; and offshore fishing grounds such as oyster beds and trawling grounds, etc.
At the moment, we are using 'Maritime' as the broad monument type, with 'Seascape' as 'type' and an additional classification 'entry type' drawing on EH Historic Seascapes Characterisations thesauri e.g. firing range, fishing grounds, rocky outcrop, etc.
I'd find it very helpful if the above could be reviewed by FISH at some time.
Very much enjoying the discussions here is Aberystwyth...
Sincerely yours,
Deanna Groom
Swyddog Arforol / Maritime Officer
Tîm Rhagchwilio / Reconnaissance Team
Comisiwn Brehinol Henebion Cymru / Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales
Plas Crug
Aberystwyth
SY23 1NJ
Ffôn / Telephone:: 01970 621200
Direct Dial: 01970 621217
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-----Original Message-----
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carlisle, Philip
Sent: 24 October 2014 09:44
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Session 2 - Landforms, sites and palaeoenvironmental information: Q1
+1
Phil
________________________________________
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenban-Smith F.F. [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 October 2014 09:28
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Session 2 - Landforms, sites and palaeoenvironmental information: Q1
Thank-you Paul for this detailed introduction. Here, I just want to recap some issues that arose in practice in the Stour Project, and establish what is, isn't and perhaps should be shared good practice for recording Palaeolithic (and indeed Mesolithic and other) historic environment information in HERs. I am not proposing anything radical, in fact the main thing I am proposing is that the existing MIDAS definition of "Monument" is correctly followed - particularly in relation to categorisation of "RecordType" in HERs. This would then have the benefit of bringing locations with important non-artefactual palaeo-environmental information into the HER.
The current definition [following MIDAS - Monument Inventory Data Standard] is "Any feature of the landscape or seascape that, by its nature (either extant or former), imparts knowledge about the historic environment, including built, buried and underwater heritage of all dates and types". This is very broad, and encompasses most, if not all, of the other Record_Type options also in use, such as Landscape, Building, Farmstead, Crash Site, Hedgerow etc. It also implicitly includes natural deposits of all types and periods, although it is not in practice used in that broad sense. For the recent Stour Palaeolithic/Mesolithic HER enhancement project, under guidance of the Kent County Council heritage curatorial team, it was found practical to regard stratified artefact finds as Record_Type "Monuments", in contrast to stray unstratified finds as Record_Type "Findspots". This was an important and useful distinction, and I would like to enquire whether this is standard practice for HERs in other regions, and if it isn't to suggest that it become so - it is also important to note that one can happily have the RecordType as "Monument", coupled with a MonumentType of "Findspot".
Fossil and palaeo-environmental find spots - "ecofacts" - were provisionally recorded for the Stour Project with a new Record_Type "PEFS - Pleistocene Environmental Find Spot". However, this is not necessary once one recognises that ecofacts should have similar status to artefacts as historic environmental evidence. It is therefore proposed to clarify the distinction between stratified finds and stray out-of-context findspots in an updated definition of Monument, and to emphasise that stratified finds can be artefacts or ecofacts, ie. Monument - "Any feature of the landscape or seascape that, by its nature or contents (either extant or former), imparts knowledge about the historic environment, including built, buried and underwater heritage of all dates and types, stratified artefacts and ecofacts, and natural Quaternary deposits".
Then, the "Monument_Type" and "Find_Type" fields can be used to refine information on the Monument record, and to identify whether it is a natural deposit with Quaternary palaeo-environmental remains from the Hoxnian interglacial, or a Roman villa. Many of the existing definitions are already fairly adequate for this, although some minor revisions and clarifications are proposed to the scope notes for existing terms, as well a couple of new terms - these will be explored in Q3 of this session.
Homepage: www.soton.ac.uk/~ffws/New_ffws/index.html<http://www.soton.ac.uk/~ffws/New_ffws/index.html>
Francis Wenban-Smith (Dr)
Department of Archaeology (CAHOR - Centre for Applied Human Origins Research) University of Southampton (Avenue Campus) Southampton, Hants
SO17 1BF
02380-596 864 (direct)
07771-623 096 (mobile)
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Cuming
Sent: 24 October 2014 09:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [FISH] Session 2 - Landforms, sites and palaeoenvironmental information: Q1
(practical note: it is taking the FISH system 10 minutes to post emails so apologies if I have posted this follow-up email before anyone has commented on the opening one)
The first question I raised in this session was:
1. Is the current distinction in usage between 'Monument' and 'Findspot' as used in HERs helpful for the recording and protection of Palaeolithic and Mesolithic sites?
To begin the discussion it makes sense to introduce the current definition of Monument under MIDAS. For those who may not be aware, the data standard used by HERs is the MIDAS Heritage data standard. This standard was originally developed as a collaboration between Royal Commission on the Historical Monuments of England<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_on_the_Historical_Monuments_of_England>(RCHME), English Heritage, Association of Local Government Archaeological Officers(ALGAO), British and Irish ArchaeologicalBbibliography (BIAB) and the National Trust. It was published in 1998 but was updated in 2007 by FISH. It is important to note, however, that MIDAS Heritage does not define the thesaurus terms used in HERs - merely the structure and organisation of the information to be recorded. The terms themselves are defined in a series of thesauri and word lists originally developed by the Data Standards Working Party, a cross-sectoral group and the precursor of FISH, which included representatives of RCHME, EH, National Trust, CBA, ALGAO, the British Museum and the mda. It is possible to alter terms, or develop new ones, without altering MIDAS Heritage.
The definition of Monument given in MIDAS Heritage is "The documentation of any feature of the landscape or seascape that, by its nature (either extant or former), imparts knowledge about the historic environment. This includes built, buried and underwater heritage of all dates and types." In theory this could include entirely natural features or deposits that contribute information about the past. However, the text introducing the Monument information group does not really imply that it was originally intended to apply to these: "'Monument' in MIDAS Heritage usage includes buildings (both ruined and in use), shipwrecks and aircraft crash sites, battlefields, parks and gardens and open spaces, relict landscape features, and sites with folklore associations, as well as field monuments such as barrows and field systems, wetlands, cropmarks, submerged landscapes, urban strata and find-spots typically associated with archaeology."
Most HERs in England use the HBSMR software developed by exeGesIs SDM Ltd. As part of that software HER records can be defined as Monuments or Findspot Record Types (as well as other record types eg Buildings etc). Once defined, records are then classified using terms from the FISH thesauri. It is important to understand, therefore, that the distinction between Monuments and Findspots Record Types as used in HERs is not required either by the thesauri or by MIDAS Heritage but rather is a matter of HER recording practice. HERs are at liberty to use the Record Types as they wish, and indeed to invent new ones. They do not therefore have precise definitions although in the Monument thesaurus Findspot is defined as "The approximate location at which stray finds of artefacts were found. Index with object name."
This is therefore an area where HERs have considerable freedom of action. This means, though, that there is also considerable room for confusion and a need for greater co-ordination and standardisation of recording practice.
At this point I would like to invite Francis to explain the consequences of the distinction between Monuments and Findspots for representing Palaeolithic sites appropriately.
Paul
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Paul Cuming | Historic Environment Record Manager | Environment, Planning and Enforcement | Heritage Conservation Group Kent County Council | Maidstone, ME14 1XX | Tel: 03000 413358 | www.kent.gov.uk/HER<http://www.kent.gov.uk/HER>
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of English Heritage unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available.
Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage Collection; have a look and tell us what you think.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/portico/
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of English Heritage unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available.
Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage Collection; have a look and tell us what you think.
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/portico/
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