Yes, I agree with everything you say Elizabeth and thank-you for the offer of help.
One matter arising that you raise, and which corresponds with my experience from the Stour Project and with being in contact with other HER officers, is that it seems odd to me that there is often this apparent disjunction between PAS recording and the HER - surely it is important that (a) PAS records should be structured so as to be compatible with the HER, and easily added to it; and (b) they should follow similar protocols/constraints/sources for artefact description, period attribution etc.
And this is of course applicable beyond Palaeolithic/Mesolithic and lithic artefacts.
Homepage: www.soton.ac.uk/~ffws/New_ffws/index.html
Francis Wenban-Smith (Dr)
Department of Archaeology (CAHOR - Centre for Applied Human Origins Research)
University of Southampton (Avenue Campus)
Southampton, Hants
SO17 1BF
02380-596 864 (direct)
07771-623 096 (mobile)
-----Original Message-----
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Walker
Sent: 24 October 2014 17:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Session 3, Part 3 - An improved lithics thesaurus
I agree that a separate object class structure developed as a part of the Archaeological object name thesaurus would be very helpful from a museum perspective and no doubt for the PAS too. If this could be developed with scope notes developed by lithic analysts representing all periods I think we could end up with something very valuable and useful to all those engaged with the recording of lithic artefacts.
As someone who creates both museum and PAS data (so presumably I contribute towards HER data too) and then as a user of these and others' data for research purposes too I always bemoan the inconsistency in recording and in the terminology used. So would find this very useful and would be happy to contribute towards the development of this if my contribution is felt to be deemed helpful.
Elizabeth
________________________________
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenban-Smith F.F. [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 24 October 2014 16:32
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Session 3, Part 3 - An improved lithics thesaurus
I think it would be much better to group Lithic artefacts into a single thesaurus, or object class. Part of the problem is that the existing terms and class divisions are very misleading, so we may as well have a wholesale revamp I think.
Homepage: www.soton.ac.uk/~ffws/New_ffws/index.html<http://www.soton.ac.uk/~ffws/New_ffws/index.html>
Francis Wenban-Smith (Dr)
Department of Archaeology (CAHOR - Centre for Applied Human Origins Research) University of Southampton (Avenue Campus) Southampton, Hants
SO17 1BF
02380-596 864 (direct)
07771-623 096 (mobile)
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Campbell, Gill
Sent: 24 October 2014 16:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Session 3, Part 3 - An improved lithics thesaurus
I am far from and expert on this but would it not be possible to index the terms in object type thesaurus against a new class 'lithic artefact' without changing the existing terms or current class divisions?
Gill
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sally Carter
Sent: 24 October 2014 15:47
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: [FISH] Session 3, Part 3 - An improved lithics thesaurus
Hello All,
We are still experiencing problems with the mailing list so Francis has asked me to post the final part of Session 3 for discussion. Please continue to respond with the session and question number in the header and we will do our best to get a response to you.
Francis Wenban-Smith:
Moving on to the final part of this session, and indeed of this e-conference, there are numerous other glitches in the positioning of lithic terms within the various thesauri, and with their scope notes, but we will let these go for the moment, and now move on to discuss how to develop an improved lithic artefact terminology, better incorporated in EH thesauri. We have two main proposals to consider:
3.3.1 - There should there be a separate thesaurus for the object class "Lithic Artefacts", under the umbrella of "Archaeological Objects". This would make it easier to know where to go to find terms for lithic artefacts, and various ambiguous terms remaining in other thesauri, for instance "cleaver" and "knife" in the list of "Cutting equipment" in the "Tools and Equipment" thesaurus could have their scope notes amended to exclude lithic artefacts. Existing specific lithic terms could either be extracted from current thesauri, or be left where they are, although duplicated in the proposed new lithics thesaurus. Any comments?
3.3.2 - In order to update thesaurus terms and develop a new thesaurus for "Lithic artefacts" with an academically credible basis, at the same time effective for HER and PAS - Portable Antiquities Scheme - purposes, it is proposed to develop a project involving a working group of lithic specialists and HER officers under auspices of FISH, leading to seminars with a wider range of HER officers, academics and lithic specialists commenting on pre-prepared drafts of new terms and definitions: any comments/suggestions, or volunteers as participants?
And finally, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Gill and Sarah for organising this conference, and technical support, and Paul, Jonathan and Sally for their roles as facilitators. I certainly feel myself it has been a very useful exchange of views, and I think it will lead as hoped to some beneficial improvements. And also thank-you to everyone who has followed the posts, and contributed.
Sally Carter
Principal Documentation Officer / Prif Swyddog Dogfennaeth Collections Services / Gwasanaethau Casgliadau Amgueddfa Cymru - National Museum Wales Parc Cathays / Cathays Park Caerdydd / Cardiff
CF10 3NP
+44(0)29 20573295
www.amgueddfacymru.ac.uk<http://www.amgueddfacymru.ac.uk/> / www.museumwales.ac.uk<http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/>
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YMWADIAD
Mae pob neges ebost a anfonir i neu gan Amgueddfa Cymru yn cael ei sganio gan systemau diogelwch awtomatig er mwyn rheoli negeseuon digymell a dileu cynnwys amhriodol neu beryglus. Cafodd y neges hon ei sganio am firysau cyn ei hanfon, ond dylech hefyd fodloni'ch hun bod y neges, a phob atodiad ynddi, yn rhydd o firysau cyn ei defnyddio gan nad yw'r Amgueddfa'n derbyn cyfrifoldeb am unrhyw golled neu ddifrod o ganlyniad i agor y neges neu unrhyw atodiadau. Gall y neges hon ac unrhyw ffeiliau a atodir ynddi gynnwys gwybodaeth gyfrinachol a fwriadwyd ar gyfer y derbynnydd yn unig. Os ydych chi wedi derbyn y neges trwy gamgymeriad, rhowch wybod i ni a chofiwch ddileu'r neges.
Safbwyntiau personol yr awdur yw'r safbwyntiau a fynegir yn y neges hon, ac nid ydynt o reidrwydd yn cynrychioli safbwyntiau'r Amgueddfa.
Nid yw'r Amgueddfa'n atebol am unrhyw wallau, llygredd neu esgeulustod a allai godi wrth drosglwyddo'r neges hon, felly na ddibynnwch ar y cynnwys heb geisio cadarnhad ysgrifenedig yn gyntaf.
DISCLAIMER
Email to and from Amgueddfa Cymru - National Museum Wales is scanned by automated security systems to control unsolicited messages and eliminate inappropriate or dangerous content. This message was scanned for viruses before transmission, but you should also satisfy yourself that the message, and all attachments, are virus-free before use as the Museum accepts no responsibility for any loss or damage that might arise from opening the message or any attachments. This message and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential information intended only for the recipient. If you received it by mistake please inform us and delete the message. The views expressed in this message are the personal views of the author and may not necessarily represent those of the Museum. The Museum accepts no liability for any errors, corruption or omissions that might arise in transmission of this message, so please do not rely on the contents without seeking confirmation in writing.
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