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POETRYETC  September 2014

POETRYETC September 2014

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Subject:

Re: Laughter

From:

Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc: poetry and poetics

Date:

Mon, 29 Sep 2014 12:47:09 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (682 lines)

O brave new world that has such sharp readers

L

On 25 September 2014 18:34, Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Ha, well I take Andrew's point, somewhat & generally, but also, rereading,
> see those final ones as carrying a sharpened stick, & inviting either
> complete abjection or sudden recognition, & that bifurcation leads both
> back into the poem as a whole or onwards to whatever....
>
> Doug
> On Sep 25, 2014, at 5:25 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Step outside, would you, Andrew.
> >
> > I have returned to the poem and tried to read it as you have with regard
> to
> > your remarks on the last paragraph. I disagree.
> >
> > Understand that I am really glad you think the poem brilliant and that
> you
> > loved it. Also I greatly respect your critical faculty. However (he forms
> > his hands into mental fists perhaps), having some regard for my own
> > critical faculty, I disagree
> >
> > You charge that the final paragraph is
> >
> > too declarative
> >
> > out of 'mood' with the above
> >
> > tidy
> >
> > Point One. Too declarative for what or whom?
> >
> > & why is it *too declarative? The poem is full of declarative
> statements:-
> >
> >
> >
> > Usually all the religious icons have been smashed.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Winter is close: the flat extremities
> >
> > of the inhabitants cast low shadows
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > no one succeeds in communicating anything
> >
> > beyond malice.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > There is too much salt in the soil for proper crops.
> >
> > There is too much sulphur in the air to breathe correctly;
> >
> > but a sniggering sort of laughter is permissible.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > There is ample evidence that pepper sprays are only mildly carcinogenic
> >
> > and are not therefore greatly deleterious to health
> >
> > unless the target should be grossly asthmatic.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > We must not be scared by the loss of one or two battles.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Everyone should have several of these in their wardrobe.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Everything combines to hinder or delay a new campaign.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > The plan was hastily conceived.
> >
> > Some of them were self-assured;
> >
> > some of them tried to smile and look composed.
> >
> > None wanted to fight. None wanted to retreat. None wanted to die.
> >
> > They copied each others' identity papers and pretended
> >
> > to relationships they did not have.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > None were well but most survived and all contained their rage
> >
> > until there should be some possibility of retribution.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > The photographs do not do justice to this excellent piece.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > the guns
> >
> > are in position and the population has been gradually led
> >
> > into the demoralising temptations of arcades,baths and banquets.
> >
> >
> >
> > Point Two.
> >
> > Regarding the mood, I hope that the above quotes will make it clearer
> that
> > the mood of the voice and therefore presumably of the poem as a whole
> > changes.
> >
> > There are mechanical reasons for that, which I have gone into on the list
> > already, though the evidence is there: different sources for quotations
> for
> > a start
> >
> > The last paragraph is fairly close to the voice when it is saying
> >
> > Cut out the sentimentality. Cut out
> >
> > all of it or I'll cut it out of you myself.
> >
> >
> >
> > but it differs as well. It keeps differing.
> >
> >
> >
> > In the final paragraph, it's aggression at one remove; and bullshit.
> >
> >
> >
> > It's - for me - in a box with Cameron's remarks in Iraq in the UN just
> > now; but I don't doubt you have your own examples. (I doubt I'll have
> > another opportunity so I'll just mention that he near as damn says "Well
> we
> > have to do something", my favourite buffoon expostulation just now.)
> >
> > Point Three.
> >
> > I dispute that it is a tidy ending. I cannot dispute that it is an
> ending;
> > but it doesn't have to be at the end. One draft had it placed after the
> > long "Cut out the sentimentality" paragraph. As, in yet another draft,
> the
> > poem opened with the diamond / axe image.
> >
> > (It is of course a somewhat sentimental utterance itself, or one aimed at
> > arousing sentiment i.e. of that type - made up by me but could be
> anything
> > from Oswald Mosley of the Blackshirts to Nigel Farage, leader of UK
> > Independence Party - unfortunately - all too present.)
> >
> > There is little tidiness! It could be the end of a speech; but it might
> > also be a groundnote for a speech, to be elaborated upon.
> >
> > It is less typical of the other paragraphs than many; but I want to
> stress
> > the variety.
> >
> > I think of the poem as something like a mobile which I either realise in
> > html or some other computer language in order to effect the mobility, or
> > leave it in one state. I chose the latter because it is more important to
> > me to stress the jump-cutting than the mobility.
> >
> >
> >
> > best
> >
> >
> >
> > L
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25 September 2014 06:27, Andrew Burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Brilliant! I loved it. Somehow I would have left off the last verse -
> too
> >> declarative and out of 'mood' with the above. (I am anti tidy endings
> >> because they invariably colour what has gone before one way or the
> other -
> >> but not the reader's way.)
> >>
> >> But it's the Hit of the Week, as far as I'm concerned ...
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> On 25 September 2014 02:30, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, as before, I am grateful for such a close reader... I don't have
> a
> >>> tv. Haven't had one for over ten years and haven't seen much in 20.
> >>> Sometimes I may see something on my laptop, but I have the sound turned
> >>> down - you see a lot you wouldnt see otherwise without the sound! Yes,
> I
> >>> get my knowledge of what's going on from the web but more from BBC
> World
> >>> Service and Radio 4. Verbal. Still photos. Or when I look out the
> window
> >>> and the wind's blowing and moving things.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Some of the things in this piece, the events I mean, are made up,
> >> gestural
> >>> things, there's a bit where a woman turns her head and her hair moves
> >>> forwards... One sees that all the time both with friends and intimates
> >> and
> >>> people passing in the street
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The last lines are not quotes for instance. Just made up. I don't doubt
> >>> someone has said them, but I made them up based on other things people
> >> have
> >>> said; but wrote them off the top of my head. Or so I believe. I've been
> >>> writing this for nearly 20 years! On and off, you know. Those lines
> were
> >>> much as they are ten years ago.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Some of the writing came, I believe, from an issue of the Cotton
> Traders
> >>> catalogue - that or some other clothing catalogue. You can spot that -
> >>> colours, fabrics etc. I've got a piece I'm performing with Benedict
> >> Taylor,
> >>> next month, my voice and his viola, where counting comes in and out of
> >> the
> >>> text, but such short outtakes from such a long list of numbers that it
> >> may
> >>> seem random.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> May be random.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to consider the possibility that the voice changes. Can't say
> >>> how. Can't say more or less anything. To try to explain I'd like to go
> >> back
> >>> to that idea of editing film, cutting one section against another.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Obviously (?) it's not another Dziga Vertov idea - I think I referred
> to
> >>> him before. But important as he is to me, there's no point in just
> doing
> >>> the same thing again and again; but it's in that territory. What you
> can
> >>> achieve by cutting a text as if it were audio tape.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Once that idea is there one doesn't an original continuity to cut.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Originally the piece was called Montage. Then I thought it ought to be
> >>> Conceptual Montage. Then I thought that is not the subject. What's the
> >>> subject?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Laughter.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Maybe I'll stop now. I don't know if any of that is any use. I didn't
> >>> really think about it till you asked. Or rather I may have had a
> >> different
> >>> explanation on the tip of my notional tongue. Ive just responded with
> >> this
> >>> as if I'm chatting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> thanks so much
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> best
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> L
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 24 September 2014 16:57, Doug Barbour <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Phew, Lawrence.
> >>>>
> >>>> I began reading & wasnt sure ow to respond. It seemed, that early
> part,
> >>> so
> >>>> distanced & cool, not partaking of any of the many things/events
> >>> described.
> >>>> But it builds, & that voice of no one while mostly staying firm in its
> >>>> declining any real interest does get involved,& so the build up, the
> >>>> accumulation of images (mostly from TV or the web?) savages the
> reader,
> >>>> despite or almost because of that refusal to emote, or so it felt to
> >>> me...
> >>>>
> >>>> Doug
> >>>> On Sep 24, 2014, at 6:25 AM, Lawrence Upton <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> a square of denim, squareness imposed
> >>>>>
> >>>>> by the photograph containing its image,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> buttons done up; head level, tapering into
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a kind of wedge which one might call the nose;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> all's quiet, the houses smoking, hills deserted
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the virgin has sumptuous hair, the child god set aside,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> her hands clasped together loosely in an ill-fitting jumper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Usually all the religious icons have been smashed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He clenches his fist, but does not look at anyone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The sleeping bag slips slowly off the bed, half unzipped, flaps
> >>>>>
> >>>>> folded back, turned down like lapels;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> or skin and flesh in a bungled operation;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a joke gorilla breaks through the forest,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> pretending to be the god of war,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but no one believes in it;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a young girl scratches her head,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a sign of sophisticated bewilderment
> >>>>>
> >>>>> because she is smiling
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and does not seem to be at all afraid.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Winter is close: the flat extremities
> >>>>>
> >>>>> of the inhabitants cast low shadows
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and do not raise themselves above the artificial
> >>>>>
> >>>>> darkness coming in off the sea; all growl
> >>>>>
> >>>>> at each other and attempt to speak,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but no one succeeds in communicating anything
> >>>>>
> >>>>> beyond malice.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Two headless corpses have been laid, face up,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> upon each other; hands which slapped together
> >>>>>
> >>>>> in a childish game; one man's shirt is glistening
> >>>>>
> >>>>> with blood; she looks up at him from the warm floor;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> firelight reflects off a bright cheek;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> she is smiling; she is welcoming; he hesitates
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and then he speaks. She does not listen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The steps of the pyramid rise towards midday sun.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A rotten cow's head feeds flies. It is the autumn.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The people have no hope of returning to their homes;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but, perhaps, if they can stop laughing, there is still something
> >>>>>
> >>>>> to be done. There shall be no escape, but there is a chance
> >>>>>
> >>>>> that some sense of community may be faked in these circumstances,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> despite all. They gain nothing by submission,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> except heavier burdens. Whether their masters quarrel
> >>>>>
> >>>>> with each other or agree, their bondage is equally ruinous.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is too much salt in the soil for proper crops.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is too much sulphur in the air to breathe correctly;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but a sniggering sort of laughter is permissible.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Headless corpses descend the escalator.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> An attendant calls out the range for the buyers to hear:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> green over blue, blue over blue, blue denim. Squared off blues
> >>>>>
> >>>>> in curving shapes. Our heavyweight stone-washed classic
> >>>>>
> >>>>> is a real classic. Nothing is any longer safe from their greed and
> >> lust
> >>>>>
> >>>>> yet what a mere handful the invaders are.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> She adopts the stance of a man and leans upon his shoulder.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He affects not to see her. He does not reject the advance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He puts on his glasses, throws his jacket backwards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> over the other shoulder, and looks into the middle distance
> >>>>>
> >>>>> with smug assurance: blue denim, blue over blue, ecru, black.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There are two styles for men and one for ladies.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Blue denim, blue over blue, green over blue, ecru and black.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Her majesty's equerry takes over the microphone. Looks like
> >>>>>
> >>>>> an elongated diamond or a double-headed axe. Bottle. Navy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Raspberry. White. Cut from a generously-sized unisex block.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can be worn on its own or underneath a jacket, giving a smart
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but casual look. Style reference Alan. He is on his own.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The sky has darkened. Leggings are made from our soft quality cotton.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There is ample evidence that pepper sprays are only mildly
> >> carcinogenic
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and are not therefore greatly deleterious to health
> >>>>>
> >>>>> unless the target should be grossly asthmatic. Camel; khaki;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ecru; taupe. Style reference Stan, who has nearly thirty years with
> >> the
> >>>>> force.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We must not be scared by the loss of one or two battles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wear your best working clothes, put your hand behind your head
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and stretch and laugh. Ankle length. Black, navy, grey marl, ecru.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Everyone should have several of these in their wardrobe.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He pulls a brick from the wall and hurls it towards the enemy;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but they laugh as they come forward. They have water-cannon;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> they have rockets; they have curved sticks set with broken glass;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> they have the newspapers behind them and bright lights to dazzle.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One size fits all. The same paralysis in the face of the foe;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the same insubordination towards that which had been agreed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> She, however, wore his boots and wore them to great effect,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> one leg curled around her, one leg cocked, elbow on it at the knee,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the hand of the other arm and hand sub-system clutching
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the ankle of the leg curled round her. She had full lips
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and slightly tousled hair; her smile suggested honour and dignity
> >>>>>
> >>>>> but stopped short of bloodshed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The kids came out of the woods after a hard struggle:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> bottle, red, navy, white, birch grey. They were made
> >>>>>
> >>>>> from the same heavy fabric as their parents,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the summer now far spent, and they were watching
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the points where danger threatens. Bottle; black; navy; birch grey.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Everything combines to hinder or delay a new campaign. Bottles,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> broken in fights or by carelessness, it hardly matters. Birch grey,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> alder, oak and ash. White where the fires burned the fiercest.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Red of your blood --
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cut out the sentimentality. Cut out
> >>>>>
> >>>>> all of it or I'll cut it out of you myself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The plan was hastily conceived.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Some of them were self-assured;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> some of them tried to smile and look composed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> None wanted to fight. None wanted to retreat. None wanted to die.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They copied each others' identity papers and pretended
> >>>>>
> >>>>> to relationships they did not have. Black, navy, green and red,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Bordeaux and green, style reference Rome. The strong carried the
> >> weak.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> None were well but most survived and all contained their rage
> >>>>>
> >>>>> until there should be some possibility of retribution. Navy, dark
> >> red,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> olive, petrol; black, navy, bottle of wine; dark denim, light denim,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> they were suddenly upon us, swimming whilst carrying their arms,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> their horses under control, the background music synched
> >>>>>
> >>>>> to the camera. What could embarrass or defeat a foe who attacked like
> >>>> that?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The photographs do not do justice to this excellent piece.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A small roll neck, the head disabled or cut off.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Other features include an open welt.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> She turns her back to the camera, then turns her head to face it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The hair flounces forward with the movement; the face starts to
> >> smile.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The hands are wrong; the jumper's shapeless; but the guns
> >>>>>
> >>>>> are in position and the population has been gradually led
> >>>>>
> >>>>> into the demoralising temptations of arcades,baths and banquets.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is an established classic and is equally suitable for men and
> >>> women.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He stands behind her with the gun in the small of her back.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They smile at the commandant who is baffled and in despair.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Black. Indigo. Black, indigo. And then she gets the joke
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and she just can't stop laughing. I'm going to fall off the log,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> you bastard, she says. A woman passing with her dog on a leash
> >>>>>
> >>>>> tries to look shocked, can't quite make it. Flecks of mud stain
> >>>>>
> >>>>> his white shirt. Slowly she takes off the superfluous rain coat
> >>>>>
> >>>>> to reveal her jacket, nautical blue, cactus, India ink.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We've chosen this jacket with great care.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Produced from the finest, heavy grain hide,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> it is really a substantial garment. It will get better and better
> >>>>>
> >>>>> with age whilst keeping out the worst that the English winter
> >>>>>
> >>>>> can throw at you, whilst looking incredibly stylish as well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When I consider the motives we have for fighting
> >>>>>
> >>>>> and the critical positions we are in, I have a strong feeling
> >>>>>
> >>>>> that the united front you are showing today will mean
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the dawn of liberty for the whole of Britain.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Douglas Barbour
> >>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> >>>> http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> >>>>
> >>>> Latest books:
> >>>> Continuations & Continuations 2 (with Sheila E Murphy)
> >>>> http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=962
> >>>> Recording Dates
> >>>> (Rubicon Press)
> >>>>
> >>>> If once a man indulges himself in murder, very soon he comes to think
> >>>> little of robbing; and from robbing he comes next to drinking and
> >>>> sabbath-breaking, and from that to incivility and procrastination.
> >>>>
> >>>>                                 Thomas De Quincey
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andrew
> >> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> >> 'Undercover of Lightness'
> >> http://walleahpress.com.au/recent-publications.html
> >> 'Shikibu Shuffle'
> >>
> >>
> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/new-from-aboveground-press-shikibu.html
> >>
> >
>
> Douglas Barbour
> [log in to unmask]
>
> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations & Continuation 2
> (UofAPress).
> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>
> that we are only
> as we find out we are
>
>         Charles Olson
>

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