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AAHPN  September 2014

AAHPN September 2014

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Subject:

Re: Scotland

From:

Kenneth Thompson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Kenneth Thompson <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:10:15 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (286 lines)

Hi All
I suspect that in the light of day there is some sense of relief in the UK.  And no sense of exhilaration. 
I guess that's how I feel. I have to admit I hoped for a different outcome to see what might break the gridlock of politics as usual. 
It may have been an in vain desire to escape the horrible politics here in the states. Or maybe a desire to see a new example of politics arise in an anglophone country. Sure would still like to see that.  

Ken

Ken Thompson MD
4127608483
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2014, at 6:36 AM, Calum Paton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> to correct myself, it would not be expulsion but dissolution of the union
> 
>> On 19/09/2014, Calum Paton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Like Alan, I assume the UK parliament could expel Scotland, with Royal
>> Assent......but only by tearing up the 1707 treaty of union. With no
>> written constitution other than the 1688 Bill of Rights, it's a grey area,
>> I guess. But I am not a constitutional expert so may be wrong.
>> 
>> Had Scotland voted 'Yes' to independence, then perhaps the southern areas
>> of Scotland could have decided to secede and remain with England (and
>> indeed Orkney and Shetland in the far north might have wanted to do so
>> too....there is a suspicion there of 'Edinburgh centralism'!). Then they
>> could have asked the good people of Donetsk and Lukhansk for advice, and
>> perhaps had some guarantee of support from President Putin haha
>> 
>>> On 18 September 2014 23:15, Kenneth Thompson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That's kind of a shame.  Founding fathers should have thought of that!
>>> 
>>> Ken Thompson MD
>>> 4127608483
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 4:41 PM, "Marmor, Ted" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Civil War, after all, was about breaking up the Union. The
>>> Constitution has no obvious mechanism for taking Texas or anyplace else
>>> out
>>> of the Union. By congressional action, with presidential support, one
>>> could
>>> imagine all kinds of punishment to particular places.  Punishment, but
>>> not
>>> expulsion.
>>> 
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Anglo-American Health Policy Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>> <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Uwe E. Reinhardt
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:54 PM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: Scotland
>>> 
>>>  I really don’t know. Am not too familiar with the U.S. Constitution,
>>> like most Americans, lawyers included.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:* Anglo-American Health Policy Network [mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>> <[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *Kenneth Thompson
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:53 PM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: Scotland
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Does the us constitution bar us from expelling a state or portions
>>> thereof??
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Like certain parts of Texas. (I would keep west Texas, the big bend and
>>> austin. Maybe San Antonio.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken Thompson MD
>>> 
>>> 4127608483
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Alan Maynard <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> We do not have a constitution so in principle my guess we could
>>> legislate so to do, that we need Parliamentary support of course
>>> 
>>> Alan
>>> 
>>> On Thursday, 18 September 2014, Uwe E. Reinhardt <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A question: In principle, could England ever vote to expel Scotland from
>>> the UK (not that they are likely to be so inclined)? Just in principle?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:* Anglo-American Health Policy Network
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Adam Oliver
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:12 PM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: Scotland
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Do keep emotion out of the decision (or to lessen it), they could have
>>> asked the Scots “If the English were voting for independence from you,
>>> what
>>> would you advise them to vote?”
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyway, if it’s a ‘no’ vote, I’ll look forward to England’s turn to vote
>>> for independence. It’s only fair.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:* Anglo-American Health Policy Network
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>> *On Behalf Of *Calum Paton
>>> *Sent:* 18 September 2014 18:22
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
>>> *Subject:* Re: Scotland
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yes I see your point. It's a difficult one to call, I admit.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> There is certainly a strand within the SNP which wants (for example) to
>>> nationalise BP after independence - Jim Sillars, a Labour MP in the 1970s
>>> then a breakaway 'Scottish Labour' MP then later a Deputy Leader of the
>>> SNP, is perhaps the most prominent example. He appeared at a rally last
>>> week with Alex Salmond in a display of unity. But he had earlier, in
>>> January 2014, called Salmond's first preference of a currency union with
>>> the rest of the UK as "stupidity on stilts." His aim would be a socialist
>>> Scotland after independence with a separate currency.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> That other prominent left-winger George Galloway on the other hand thinks
>>> Salmond and the SNP would win in 2016 in an independent Scotland, forming
>>> a
>>> pro-monarchy, pro-NATO, pro-pound government. Presumably he thinks the
>>> whole thing would be pointless, as well as ditching solidarity with
>>> English/UK workers.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers Calum
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 18 September 2014 17:31, Kenneth Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Calum et al
>>> 
>>> So I am clear- I think an independent Scotland will do a lot more for the
>>> workers in England then being in the union.
>>> 
>>> I appreciate your fears about the Scottish economy in the face of
>>> neoliberal capital. Of course it will pit nation against nation. It
>>> already
>>> is. The question in my mind isn't that.
>>> 
>>> My question is where is the resistance?  An independent Scotland is
>>> mounting that resistance now. But the workers of the UK have not- Maggie
>>> laid them low.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Btw I was taught the toast is
>>> 
>>> Here tae us!
>>> 
>>> Whas like us?
>>> 
>>> Damn few and there a deid.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hardly a frightening assertion of tartan nationalism!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken Thompson MD
>>> 
>>> 4127608483
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 12:15 PM, Calum Paton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>  Dear All,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As a Scot (albeit living in England), I tend to a different view. It may
>>> well be that Scottish 'independence' is a subjective assertion of social
>>> democracy against English neo-liberalism, as well as an assertion of a
>>> less
>>> noble petty nationalism (as in the old whisky-fuelled romanticism 'Here's
>>> tae us - wha's like us'!)  But I fear that the objective reality would be
>>> Scotland competing to attract capital through a low-tax economy which
>>> could
>>> less afford the welfare state than at present, or certainly than under a
>>> generous 'home rule devo max' as proposed at the last minute by David
>>> 'essay crisis' Cameron.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I tend to the view that socialists or social democrats should not abandon
>>> the workers of England in pursuit of a tartan social democracy! Is not
>>> that
>>> petty-bourgeois, to use an unfashionable phrase?!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers Calum
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 18 September 2014 16:55, Kenneth Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Uwe-
>>> Sadly I tend to agree- my Scots relatives have split on the issue of
>>> independence with the nos worrying only about the financial
>>> repercussions.
>>> Jeff Sachs made the point yesterday I his blog that any financial
>>> problems
>>> subsequent to independence would have to be willfully inflicted by the
>>> government and banks.
>>> Of course a no vote will be seen as a triumph for the neoliberal
>>> financial
>>> machine. Not only too big to fail, too big to be challenged.
>>> I am not sure the world has cottoned on to this, but I fear that the vote
>>> in Scotland may be a high water mark of popular resistance in what may be
>>> the last bastion of social democracy in the anglophone world.
>>> Or-as they say in glasgow- "am I wrang?"
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> Ken Thompson MD
>>> 4127608483
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 9:43 AM, "Uwe E. Reinhardt"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The Scots may defy Prime Minister Cameron and even the Queen, but can
>>> they defy the City? I think not, so there is my prediction.
>>>> In this regard, read Simon Johnson's "The Quiet Coup" in Atlantic
>>> Monthly ca. 2009.
>>>> Johnson had been chief economist at the IMF.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic
>>> communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer
>> 

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