I would do what I said in my first email. That you think there is only one possible response - complete war, rather than, say justice - again betrays your mind set.
That's it for me everyone; this is now a conversation of the deaf; like others I'll now delete everything with this subject.
best wishes
John
________________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Elina Bardach-Yalov [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 31 July 2014 07:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
And what would you do if in addition to these bombings you had 2-3000 rockets fired at you, tunnels and terrorist attacks every now and then?
I hope you will finally try to get of this one-sided world "terrorists are sitting still and bad Israelis are killing them for nothing".
Every single conflict is a bit more complicated.
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 31, 2014, at 9:47 AM, "John Richardson (Social Sciences)" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Yes, thank you Yael & Adam for your comments. I agree with both of you completely.
Elina, no-one (at all) in the UK demanded the deaths of 1300+ people in response to the July 2005 mass killings. No-one. That you feel the collective punishment of civilians is an acceptable response is exactly the difference between your mentality and the majority (if not the rest) of this list.
Of course the tunnels disturb us. And no-one here has defended the deaths of Israelis. Please point this out.
You ask 'how can you free somebody by killing innocent people' - I would simply repose this question to you. Just as I did in my first email, which was obviously too long for you to read. How can Israel free itself from the threat of terrorism by killing innocent Palestinians?
John
________________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Elina Bardach-Yalov [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 31 July 2014 07:25
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Adam,
You are right. It doesn't matter how many civilian casualties we have in Gaza - in every single case this a real tragedy. The point is - why do you all deny the fact that Israeli deaths are also a huge tragedy??? The fact that the tunnels of HAMAS were dug just in order to kill children, women and infants does not disturb you at all. The fact that Israeli children and women were injured and murdered by HAMAS doesn't do anything to you....
If you read my emails you should admit that I've never written that I am happy about this war. I am tired, upset and grieving. But (and here comes my "but") I am even more upset with the fact that this progressive community defends the deaths of Israelis and supports the terrorists. Of course for Arabs they are "freedom fighters", but how can you free somebody by killing innocent people?
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 31, 2014, at 9:08 AM, "Ganz, Adam" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Thanks Yael. Elina, yes, (whilst I don't entirely accept your analogy ) people in London were keen to see that those behind the July 7th bombings who survived were bought to trial. But there was a great deal of public concern expressed when Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year old man not involved in the events, was wrongly identified and killed by police. You can read the story here http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
Even if you do not accept the United Nations figures (now over 200), there are clearly numerous children not involved who have been killed by the Israeli Defence Force actions. You have referred to these as "tactical mistakes" but "unavoidable".
What level of what I believe is known as "collateral damage" would you find unacceptable, or is there in your view no limit to the number of Palestinians the IDF can kill in pursuit of what you say are the aims of preventing rockets being targeted at Israel?
Adam Ganz
On 31 Jul 2014, at 06:16, "Elina Bardach-Yalov" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I just love this comparison between the terrorist organisation and the Israeli army. I am wondering how did you feel when London bombings occurred (2005). Did you actually say - we do not have to seek for those nice Islamic fanatics who killed just a very few English civilians...
And just a quick note - Israel is not attacking UNRWA buildings because of their imperfection. Israel attacks them because rockets are launched from there, which are targeted at civilians. But who cares about a few killed or injured Zionists or a few ruined kindergartens or houses if they are attacked by a very nice and peaceful terrorist organisation.
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 31, 2014, at 8:00 AM, Allen Feldman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Well by your implicit criteria the Americans are also disqualified to function as peace brokers in Gaza because they massively arm Israel as do the Europeans also seek to broker peace.
That the UN may be imperfect, is nothing new and does not justify the shelling of their facilities,clients and staff
On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 12:42 AM, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
http://www.jta.org/2014/07/24/default/ban-orders-review-following-allegations-unrwa-gave-rockets-back-to-hamas
The rockets were found 3 times in UNRWA schools and no one knows whom they were handled to, but in the first incident UNRWA admitted passing rockets to "local authorities"=HAMAS.
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 31, 2014, at 4:21 AM, David Miller <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
What, the UN and human rights agencies are passing rockets to Hamas? Any evidence for that?
On 30 Jul 2014, at 21:19, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I am just wondering if these are the same guys who passed HAMAS several days ago rockets that were found by the IDF in their school.
I said reliable source...
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 31, 2014, at 4:06 AM, David Miller <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
No ‘RELIABLE’ figures?
Well here is the Daily Telegraph, not a paper known to ‘support’ Hamas. It reports that the UN claims that up to the 21st July, 132 children had been killed and gives names, ages and sex of each one.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/10984259/Revealed-the-Palestinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html
Interesting how even very conservative papers can be pushed to report at least fragments of the truth when the brutality gets so great.
D
On 30 Jul 2014, at 12:39, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Dear Ann,
I heard so many figures 1000, 1200, 1400 (I guess everyone on the list heard them too). Can we know for sure how many civilians died in the circumstances when no RELIABLE source stays right now in Gaza? I guess not, since you will never know whom HAMAS defined as a civilian (you know terrorists usually don't wear uniforms) and whom they killed by themselves and whom they counted 5-6 times just to raise the numbers. I am aware of several very sad incidents, however, more than this no one will be able to say at this point.
Regarding - MECCSA is getting pissed off - I am afraid that the Europeans still use this "We" thing, even when they speak for themselves.
As to me I am just wondering why this progressive and democratic academic community is unable to see that the both sides are suffering and deny Israelis the right to defend themselves. You know, we are also human beings, who just want to be safe. (What a progressive thought, isn't it?)
Dr. Elina Bardach-Yalov
David Yellin College of Education
On Jul 30, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Ann Overbergh <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Elina, please explain yourself as we are talking about innocent people here, dead for no reason they had anything to do with.
Are you suggesting that the figures quoted by Milly are wrong? How do they qualify as "pure propaganda"? These stats are all over the media: 1200 Palestinians, half of whom are women and children.
Please also clarify why Levy is a lunatic?
Thanks,
Ann
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Elina Bardach-Yalov <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Milly, it's very nice of you to pass here pure propaganda, but as I said I have absolutely no intention to discuss the sources here. You are referring once again to yourself as "a world", which is a bit disturbing, but understandable. Regarding Levy, even his ex-wife, a very smart Palestinian girl was wise enough not to listen to this lunatic.
On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Milly Williamson <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Perhaps Elina really doesn’t know that over 1,200 Palestinians have been killed since the siege started and that over 250 of them were children. Perhaps she doesn’t know these facts because the Israeli Broadcasting Authority banned the human rights organisation B’Tselem from broadcasting a paid-for advert on Israeli Radio which listed the names of the dead children. The thing is, Elina, that the rest of the world has seen the list of names of these dead children, and we have seen pictures of them. Many of them were babies. We have also seen the pictures of the thousands of traumatised and injured children in Gaza. Have you read Gideon Levy yet?
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Carlsten, Jennie
Sent: 30 July 2014 13:46
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Of course Elina has a right to express her views. Surely it is appropriate for others to point out where those views are informed by her professional affiliations. That would seem very pertinent to the discussion and to the purpose of having such a discussion in this forum.
Far from shutting her out of the conversation, I would very much like to ask Elina, again, to clarify her words about "the hundreds of dead terrorists whom you call children."
Please.
Best regards,
Jennie Carlsten
________________________________
From: Media, Communications and Cultural Studies Association (MeCCSA) [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>] on behalf of Cahal McLaughlin [[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
Sent: 30 July 2014 13:41
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Behind the News from Gaza
Dear Karl,
It seems appropriate to include the information that Elina states on her own Linked In page that she has acted as an advisor to Netanyahu. If that is a 'smear and slur', then I suggest you ask Elina why she has slurred herself.
I am happy to say that I have gone on protest marches against the current genocide in Gaza. That, of course, should colour your and Elina's and others' interpretation of my contribution to this debate.
Best wishes,
Cahal
Cahal McLaughlin
Professor of Film Studies,
School of Creative Arts,
Queens University Belfast
Room 003, First Floor,
21 University Square,
Belfast BT7 1NN
N. Ireland
00 44 2890973634
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com<http://www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com><http://www.prisonsmemoryarchive.com/>
www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub<http://www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub><http://www.facebook.com/creativeartsqub>
On 30 Jul 2014, at 13:36, Spracklen, Karl wrote:
Hello all
While I tend to agree with the majority view here on the disgraceful actions of the I
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This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
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Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
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MeCCSA is the subject association for the field of media, communication and cultural studies in UK Higher Education.
This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
Any messages posted to the list are subject to the JISCMail acceptable use policy, which states that users should avoid “engaging in unreasonable behaviour, or disrupting the general flow of discussion on a list.”
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This mailing list is a free service and is not restricted to members. It is an unmoderated list and content reflect the views of those who post to the list and not of MeCCSA as an organisation.
MeCCSA recommends that the list be used only for posting of information (for example about events, publications, conferences, lectures) of interest to members or to promote discussion of current issues of wide general interest in the field. Posts to the MeCCSA mailing list are public, indexed by Google, and can be accessed from the JISCMail website (http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/meccsa.html).
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