Well Terry, we shall never know whether or not I would be impossible to
persuade, because it seems that you have decided against presenting
evidence and reasoning and in favour of a slanging match.
I am quite sure that a better grasp of maths (and of many other things I
am relatively ignorant about) would be of great benefit to me, just as I
am sure you feel that learning to draw would be helpful to you and your
understanding of Art & Design. But the title of this thread that you
launched us into is not 'Why Martin Salisbury needs Maths' but 'Why
Designers Need Maths'. Again, it seems we shall never know.
Have a good weekend,
Best wishes,
Martin
Professor Martin Salisbury
Director, The Centre for Children's Book studies
Course Leader, MA Children's Book Illustration
Cambridge School of Art
0845 196 2351
http://cambridgemashow.com/
http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/microsites/ccbs.html
The Twelve Dancing Princesses, illustrated by Sheila Robinson- now
available from our online store:
www.anglia.ac.uk/12dancingprincesses
<http://www.anglia.ac.uk/12dancingprincesses>
On 09/05/2014 15:12, "Terence Love" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Dear Martin,
>
>I feel you would be impossible to persuade regardless of evidence or
>reasoning (or better writing skills!).
>
>I suspect the differences between us are far deeper than whether some
>kinds
>of maths may be of help for designers to produce better designs.
>
>For instance I'd suspect that you believe that you can understand and know
>what designing is by reflecting on your thoughts and feelings while doing
>design? And, that you can understand what others are doing while designing
>by the same method?
>
>You also seem to think that in some magical way designing in technical
>realms is totally different to designing in the traditional art and design
>fields.
>
>Perhaps you need more technical understanding to appreciate the
>similarities?
>
>Learning some maths might help?
>
>Best wishes ,
>Terry
>
>---
>Dr Terence Love
>PhD(UWA), BA(Hons) Engin. PGCEd, FDRS, AMIMechE, MISI
>
>Honorary Fellow
>IEED, Management School
>Lancaster University, Lancaster, UK
>ORCID 0000-0002-2436-7566
>
>Director,
>Love Services Pty Ltd
>PO Box 226, Quinns Rocks
>Western Australia 6030
>Tel: +61 (0)4 3497 5848
>Fax:+61 (0)8 9305 7629
>[log in to unmask]
>--
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [log in to unmask]
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Salisbury, Martin
>Sent: Friday, 9 May 2014 6:40 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Why designers need maths
>
>Dear Terry,
>
>You addressed your answer to me but, happily, others have jumped in with
>useful contributions before I have managed to find time to return.
>
>Thank you for having a stab at addressing the questions. However, your
>'answers' are so muddled and contradictory that I have found them
>impossible
>to unravel and respond to directly. The assertive writing style makes it
>difficult to disentangle those parts intended to be presented as 'fact'
>from
>those which are purely opinion. You don't appear to differentiate between
>them.
>
>You begin by saying that there are 'three parts to the answer' and then
>you
>list 'three big change factors in professionals' lives.'. It is not clear
>whether these are in some way the three parts of the answer you refer to
>or
>are another digression/ red herring. Either way, I still can't fathom
>where
>you are coming from. If, as you suggest in your subsequent message to Ken,
>the problem is that you are 'not explaining things well enough' perhaps,
>as
>Eduardo suggests, the best way forward is to get a computer to write for
>you. On the other hand, the problem could be that this is all nonsense.
>But
>in order to know which, we must await your forthcoming post that will
>finally explain and evidence the propositions clearly and unambiguously.
>
>I would only say that the sense that I am getting is that you completely
>misunderstand what 'design' means within the creative/applied arts. I
>sense
>that your perception of Graphic Design is limited to one of a process of
>arranging things. I believe that you are also confusing tools/ process
>with
>content. You have once again painted yourself into a corner by making wild
>assertions about areas with which you are not familiar and certainly have
>no
>experiential knowledge of, and are trying retrospectively to justify them.
>
>You say:
>"In visual design fields, human professional design development is
>predicated on sensitisation to existing and past designs using a range of
>criteria (contrast, balance, gestalt, purpose, rhetoric etc). From this,
>humans identify and critique possible new designs. The limit is only the
>limit of the number of designs a person can see in their lifetime and
>their
>sensitivity to them. This and the use of emotions and thinking provides
>the
>creative competence of designers."
>
>You seem here to be saying that what informs a designer is the range of
>designs that the designer has seen- with the use of 'emotions and
>thinking'
>as an afterthought. Try adding to that afterthought 'life experience',
>'empathy', 'humour', 'pathos', 'graphic wit'. IDEAS!. The implicit
>projection of a personal life story'. Or perhaps you are only referring to
>functional information design? I sense that you have gone away and done
>some
>very rudimentary research into these areas of creative endeavour that you
>are not too well up on in order to try to find a way out?
>
>My colleagues on the Graphic Design programme here once enrolled a
>severely
>autistic student. He received excellent support throughout his studies and
>of course made some astonishingly clever things that did not connect in
>any
>way with user/ audience.
>
>"Remember if computers can learn to produce designs on the basis of best
>designs and best design practices of the best designers, it is going to be
>increasingly harder to stay ahead of the creative designs of the
>computers."
>
>In relation to graphic design, this one clearly is nonsense. It refers to
>a
>world of endless recycling and imitation, a world of low level, local
>print
>shop design.
>
>My own students at Masters and PhD level, are very quick to learn that the
>computer is a wonderful tool and that the problems only arise when one
>expects it to design or think for them. Where this leaves us in relation
>to
>the need to learn Maths, I still have no idea.
>
>Looking forward to your next post.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Martin
>
>
>Professor Martin Salisbury
>Course Leader, MA Children's Book Illustration Director, The Centre for
>Children's Book Studies Cambridge School of Art
>0845 196 2351
>[log in to unmask]
>
>http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/microsites/ccbs.html
>
>
>--
>
>
>
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