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AHFAP Home

AHFAP  March 2014

AHFAP March 2014

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Subject:

Re: AHFAP Digest - 21 Mar 2014 to 22 Mar 2014 (#2014-29)

From:

Rob Tremain <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

AHFAP, for image professionals in the UK cultural heritage sector" <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 25 Mar 2014 11:43:08 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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text/plain (244 lines)

An alternative solution you may want to look into, is to mount your transparencies on oil when scanning, a process also known as wet scanning.

The downside to this, of course, is time taken to scan, although arguably this will be recouped later with less retouching, it is messy and would mean opening/braking any slide mounts - something that may not be an option for archival material.
As good as the modern algorithms are, any retouching can only degrade an image, so perhaps by removing the need for much retouching is the way..?

If storage space is a limiting factor, then I'd be inclined to keep only the un-retouched 'master', as this is at least faithful to the original.

If there is a desire to have a retouched version of the scan, then instead of keeping two files, which can be ambiguous, get separated, need more metadata etc., then why not store your scans as Photoshop files as this has good loss-less compression, and have a retouched layer. Then when the image is required, simply save the desired version in the desired file format. One can also easily flick between the layers to see what retouching has been done - and even reinstate any scratches!

Robert Tremain FRSA
DTP/CTP Consultant
www.tremsoft.co.uk/ctp
07977 268090


-----Original Message-----
From: AHFAP, for image professionals in the UK cultural heritage sector [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of AHFAP automatic digest system
Sent: 23 March 2014 00:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: AHFAP Digest - 21 Mar 2014 to 22 Mar 2014 (#2014-29)

There are 2 messages totaling 486 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Scanning slides / digital ICE technology (2)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 22 Mar 2014 11:36:11 +0000
From:    Derin Korman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Scanning slides / digital ICE technology

I would not trust digital ICE to carry dust and scratch removal, see this review http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Reviews/interactive/Epson%20V700/page_9.htmwhere
it removes windows in the picture and leaves some dust behind. The ideal would be to retain an as-is scan. Without a consistent, calibrated and characterized scan, there is no way to use the image as a reference for the image, in case it is needed for conservation purposes. A digitally restored variant that had color, scratch, fading corrections and such could be stored and delivered separately with clear metadata to mark it as such.

d
resm.co


On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Anne Martin <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> Hi Becky, indeed it is a good question and one which is a constant 
> topic of conversation for us.
>
> We, like previous respondents, have adopted the reasoning that dust 
> and scratches would not have been on the glass plates/slides/negatives 
> etc. to begin with so we do remove the most obvious ones if they are 
> detrimental to the image, especially if the image is to be used for publication purposes.
> We also adjust the colour balance where appropriate if the original 
> has faded over the years.
> I would agree that it is really up to the individual organisations how 
> they wish tackle this.
>
> Regards,
> Anne
>
>
> On 21 March 2014 12:21, Matt Faber <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Becky,
>>
>> This is a good question and I can see that you're receiving a lot of 
>> good advice from other colleagues. I think ultimately it comes down 
>> to whether the original image is considered an object or not and 
>> whether the removal of dust and scratches in destructive or not. I 
>> have in the past worked on photographic collections  and using ICE 
>> was never considered as one had no control over what was being removed during scanning.  I hope that helps.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> Matt Faber
>> Advisor - Image Digitisation
>> T 0203 697 5872
>> Twitter www.twitter.com/jiscdigital
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>> registered charity (number 1149740) and a company limited by 
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>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: AHFAP, for image professionals in the UK cultural heritage 
>> sector [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rebecca Brumbill
>> Sent: 21 March 2014 11:09
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Scanning slides / digital ICE technology
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> If anyone can help I would be enormously grateful.  We have been 
>> discussing our views and our working practise in the use of digital 
>> ice technology (automatically removing scratches using scanning software).
>>
>> Does anyone use digital ICE technology when digitising slides a) 
>> within their photographic collections that have been donated and b) 
>> when digitising slide collections of events / site visits that have 
>> been photographed by staff within your organisation?  If so, do you 
>> store 2 copies one with Digital ICE and one without?
>>
>> Considering in-house photography, we wouldn't dream of removing 
>> scratches from old glass plates that have been digitised, but are 
>> considering doing it for our slides, I suppose the real question is, 
>> at what stage do internally produced photographic collections become 
>> objects that need preserving in their own right?  Also does anyone do 
>> colour corrections such as removing a cyan cast when scanning internal slide collections?
>>
>> Hopefully it all makes sense!
>>
>> With many thanks in advance,
>>
>> Becky
>>
>> Rebecca Brumbill
>> Image Management Officer / Swyddog Rheoli Delweddau Photography 
>> Department / Adran Ffotograffiaeth Amgueddfa Cymru - National Museum 
>> Wales Cardiff / Caerdydd
>> CF10 3NP
>> Tel / Ffon: 029 2057 3136
>> E-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> YMWADIAD
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>>
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>>
>> --
>>  Scanned by iCritical.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>  Anne P. Martin
> Digital Imaging Manager
> ( (0)131 651 6830
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------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 22 Mar 2014 19:27:24 +0000
From:    Hugh Gilbert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Scanning slides / digital ICE technology

This is an interesting subject... 

Over the last year I've been 'inflicted' with slides from people who want me to either restore recover or generate new files from old trannies and black and white negs.  

So far I've found the best solutions have been drum scanning and the old flexitite/Hasselblad machines.  However for most work I'm finding that copying film negs and transparencies works well with my 120 macro on the Hasselblad, or the 100 macro lens on a Canon 5D, for most things this allows an enlargement to 60x60 cm or so.  I shoot straight on to a flash that has been snooted and has a perspex face... a home made rig, but works well.

Black and white negs, and colour negs, I use Robin Myers bit of B&W calibrated film to give me an accurate starting point for exposure.  

Trannies have usually deteriorated... colour shift and grime.  Recently I was asked to re-create a famous Stones Album cover (by the photographer who shot it, the original digital file was the subject of some dispute) from five reject 10x8 trannies taken at the same time.  Scuffed grubby and very magenta.  these were drum scanned and then I worked on digital copies, and the results were used as a edition of 36 x 40" prints.

Artists often have collections of slides, which are usually not very good in the first place.  Having been stored in sleeves for 30/40 years, they become really rather messy, I've found the best thing to do is to make a good first copy and then ask the artist in to help direct the colour correction on a second.  I know it is not accurate, but it will be better than what was there in the first place, and at least has the artist to sanction it.

I've just had a whole bunch of transparencies from the 'rock scene' delivered this last week, 'to see what I can do with them', and using them as an 'artistic' starting point, there is often quite a lot that can be done that eventually reveals saleable prints.

However, always the original untouched digital copy is saved, and can be reverted to when needed.  

Finally Digital Ice I find is a bit clunky and removes detail that might be needed.  

Interesting to hear how others deal with slides/negs and trannies.



Best to all from that industrial little studio in Battesea, SW London


Hugh

------------------------------

End of AHFAP Digest - 21 Mar 2014 to 22 Mar 2014 (#2014-29)
***********************************************************

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