that's exactly what we are talking about !!!!!!
bzz
On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:26 AM, roger malina <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> pedro
>
> maybe thats equally disturbing given the large
> number of pioneers in art and technology
> in south america !!
>
> roger
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 9:24 AM, pedro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> roger
>>
>> appreciate your comments, but in this specific case i dont see how they
>> apply. the curator is spanish speaking and none of the "pioneers" are !
>>
>> but yes, i love nahum too :)
>>
>> best
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:08 AM, roger malina <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>
>>> bronac
>>>
>>> yes we have already had a discussion on the yasmin list and one of the
>>> points that i tried to make is that the gender issue is only one of many
>>> exclusion mechanisms in our social processes- and that curators
>>> as key gatekeepers in our ecology play important roles- this l,ist would
>>> be a good place to discuss the diversity in curators themselves
>>>
>>> dont know what the gender statistics are for curators in the art-sci-tech
>>> community of practice
>>>
>>> by coming back to the exclusion point- i also noted the research
>>> these days about homophily in social media and that there is much
>>> evidence that social media and on line behaviour tends to reinforce
>>> like minded people to cluster - and greater polarisation than in physical
>>> space
>>>
>>> an easy example is linguistic segregation and that curators naturally
>>> work with artists whose language they share ( and i think that was
>>> the comment re no french artists in the exhibition being discussed here)
>>>
>>> several of us have been going every year to the Kosmica events in mexico
>>> city
>>> organised by nahum mantra and one of the delights there- in an
>>> esoteric community of practice- has been the bridging of language
>>> groups in space arts and becoming aware of the work of mexican
>>> artists in space arts- even though their work is on the web- we
>>> tend to read web sites in our own language even if there are now
>>> crude translation tools- of course the fact that search engines re
>>> inforce
>>> the linguistic segregation adds to this..as a curator nahum mantra
>>> navigates seamlessly between the english and spanish speaking worlds
>>> and this translation role enables more inclusion
>>>
>>> so i think we need to broaden the gender discussion in the history
>>> of our field to other exclusion mechanisms
>>>
>>> roger malina
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 8:35 AM, pedro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Annick, many thanks for the info - do you have links ? pdfs ?
>>> >
>>> > best
>>> >
>>> > pedro
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Annick Bureaud <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Ricardo Dal Farra has done a comprehensive survey of South American
>>> > > pionners in contemporary-electronic music.
>>> > > Many researchers are currently working on pioneers in Chile.
>>> > > The Brazilian are quite well documented (in English in Leonardo and
>>> in
>>> > > French in the book I edited for the @rt Outsiders Festival in 2005)
>>> > > This history is being writen, documented, and discussed in places
>>> like
>>> > the
>>> > > conf. Media Art Histories and also in some sessions at ISEA.
>>> > > It is NOT the documentation that is really missing ...
>>> > >
>>> > > annick
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Le 05/02/14 15:25, pedro a écrit :
>>> > >
>>> > > sarah, that is excellent news - thanks for that info.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> right ashok, only europe and united states (and one japanese,
>>> resident
>>> > in
>>> > >> paris) are represented !
>>> > >>
>>> > >> ah sorry, there are 3 bogotá boys - emerging contemporary artists
>>> and
>>> > >> university teachers - i can only imagine that they are friends of
>>> the
>>> > >> curator because they are certainly not "responsible for pioneering
>>> > >> processes and innovations that we use regularly to communicate
>>> research,
>>> > >> ideas and ideology" ...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> laura - maybe you could ask John Angel to have a look at this
>>> thread and
>>> > >> help us understand the context of his curatorial decisions ... it
>>> would
>>> > be
>>> > >> very helpful. Would be great to see the budget too (Bill Viola ?
>>> Damien
>>> > >> Hisrt (sic) ????) but that's probably asking too much.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> A pair of my favourite south american pioneers : Juan Downey (from
>>> > chile,
>>> > >> pioneer of video and interactive art, co-editor of Radical
>>> Software) and
>>> > >> Jacqueline Nova, the first electroacoustic music composer in
>>> Colombia.
>>> > >> Tellingly both artists lived much of their lives in the north (Juan
>>> in
>>> > NYC
>>> > >> and Jacqueline in Paris). However, they are both dead.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> best
>>> > >>
>>> > >> pedro
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Sarah Cook <[log in to unmask]
>>> >
>>> > >> wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> further to this discussion some of you may have noticed the
>>> > Art+Feminism
>>> > >>> Wikipedia Edit-a-thon which took place across the globe on Saturday
>>> > >>> February 1st.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/ArtAndFeminism
>>> > >>> http://artandfeminism.tumblr.com/
>>> > >>> https://eyebeam.org/events/art-feminism-wikipedia-edit-a-thon
>>> > >>> 80 or so new articles were created, and more than 60 expanded or
>>> > cleaned
>>> > >>> up, and a movement was started.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> In Dundee we are going to host another one, probably March 13th,
>>> and
>>> > >>> start
>>> > >>> to have regular get-togethers to increase the amount of information
>>> > about
>>> > >>> women artists on that most global of resources.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> If you want to add to the list of pages which need editing or
>>> creating
>>> > on
>>> > >>> Wikipedia, please do so.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> and yes, I agree, it is a race and gender issue.... and I feel we
>>> need to
>>>
>>> > >>> be
>>> > >>> aware with exhibitions that they are a key part in the
>>> historicisation
>>> > >>> of a
>>> > >>> field of practice, especially when they are the "first" show on a
>>> topic
>>> > >>> in
>>> > >>> a place or a show that purports to show "pioneers" - how can we
>>> balance
>>> > >>> this hyperbole around the practice and complicate the picture of
>>> the
>>> > >>> field
>>> > >>> we work in? This particular show in question was collectively
>>> curated,
>>> > >>> but
>>> > >>> raises an important problem in this regard.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> sarah
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> On 5 Feb 2014, at 12:35, Bronac Ferran <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
>>> > >>> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hi Annick and colleagues
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The exhibition in Bogota was curated by John Angel Rodriquez - yes?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> There has also be some exchange on the Yasmin list about this. One
>>> > >>> contributor commented that there were no French artists involved. I
>>> > don't
>>> > >>> know if this was a serious comment.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Liliane Lijn is someone whose work has been pioneering in many
>>> senses.
>>> > >>> She
>>> > >>> wrote a lovely essay recently called Poetry, Language, Code,
>>> Industry
>>> > >>> which
>>> > >>> we commissioned for the Visualise: Making Art in Context
>>> publication
>>> > >>> (published by Anglia Ruskin University November 2013). If anyone
>>> wishes
>>> > >>> to
>>> > >>> contact me offlist I can try to send you the book or at least the
>>> > essay.
>>> > >>> Annick, it is not (yet) in French but I guess could be easily
>>> > translated
>>> > >>> -
>>> > >>> I could ask Liliane - and certainly it offers good insights into
>>> the
>>> > >>> nature of being a female artist on pioneering ground over the past
>>> five
>>> > >>> decades.
>>> > >>> Best wishes
>>> > >>> B
>>> > >>> Sent from my BlackBerry smartphone from Virgin Media
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >>> From: Annick Bureaud <[log in to unmask]<mailto:bur
>>> > >>> [log in to unmask]
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>> Sender: "Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org<
>>> > >>> http://www.crumbweb.org>" <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:
>>> > >>> [log in to unmask]>>
>>> > >>> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 12:51:18
>>> > >>> To: <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
>>> > >>> [log in to unmask]>>
>>> > >>> Reply-To: Annick Bureaud <[log in to unmask]<mailto:bur
>>> > >>> [log in to unmask]
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>>> Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] digital / analogue exhibition
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The spontaneous list was necessary as a reaction, but I
>>> > >>> would be more reluctant in building a map : it puts again
>>> > >>> women in an inferior position.
>>> > >>> Reacting, like in this case, is more important to me and of
>>> > >>> course including them in exhibitions, conferences, etc. And
>>> > >>> documenting their work through art history research and writing.
>>> > >>> This said, in the Leonardo/Olats Pioneers & Pathbreakers
>>> > >>> project : only one women + a couple !!! Ouch ! Should I do
>>> > >>> what I advocate for ?!
>>> > >>> OK. We did not move further into this project by lack of
>>> > >>> fundings, but still...
>>> > >>> If someone is ready to write in French about a woman, I
>>> > >>> would be delighted. I would love to have something on Vera
>>> > >>> Molnar. At the moment, I have zero budget to move on, on
>>> > >>> this project ... and it does take real time to do it in a
>>> > >>> professional way.
>>> > >>> If someone is interested ....
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Annick
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Le 05/02/14 12:01, Prof. Monika Fleischmann a écrit :
>>> > >>> .... working on a growing map would be a really nice idea.
>>> > >>> Monika
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Am 05.02.14 11:39, schrieb Pauline van Mourik Broekman:
>>> > >>> Hey Marc, no sweat, that's how I - for one - read it
>>> > >>> completely; and I
>>> > >>> really don't understand how anyone could be insulted by
>>> > >>> such an incredibly
>>> > >>> generous list. Clearly, we're not looking here for an
>>> > >>> ultimate and newly
>>> > >>> objective 'map', that's the whole point! We're looking
>>> > >>> more for an
>>> > >>> approach and awareness, of different partialities, and how
>>> > >>> to robustly
>>> > >>> tilt them......
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Thanks for the hour, and hours, you put in :)
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Pauline.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> marc garrett wrote:
>>> > >>> Hi all,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I just wanted to respond to those surprised I did not
>>> > >>> included them in
>>> > >>> the list.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Well, of course I'm going to miss out names and you're
>>> > >>> missing the
>>> > >>> point. It's an example not a literal replacement.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I spent an hour of my time compiling the selected
>>> > >>> 'female' names to
>>> > >>> highlight how extensive this issue is.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> We need to change this not by compiling lists (it's a
>>> > >>> start) but by
>>> > >>> challenging our own compliance allowing it to happen. It
>>> > >>> misrepresents
>>> > >>> our culture and practice and we should be embarrassed if
>>> > >>> we let it go on.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> When ever women and working class people, are viewed
>>> > >>> through the usual
>>> > >>> protocols and defaults of the patriarchal gaze of an
>>> > >>> 'assumed'
>>> > >>> objectivity. It implements a mythology via processes of
>>> > >>> non-inclusion.
>>> > >>> This enhances the condition to further introduce the idea
>>> > >>> of women and
>>> > >>> others not included as subordinates rather than as being
>>> > >>> part of the
>>> > >>> whole story.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Recognizing this condition is the start of being
>>> > >>> conscious of it.
>>> > >>> Critiquing this repeated behaviour demands another level
>>> > >>> of engagement.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> To borrow a phrase from Haraway, it would have to be "a
>>> > >>> feminist voice;
>>> > >>> it is also a whisper of humanism".
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Wishing you well.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> marc
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ------------------------
>>> > >>> Annick Bureaud ([log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
>>> > >>> tel: 33/(0)1 43 20 92 23
>>> > >>> mobile/cell : 33/(0)6 86 77 65 76
>>> > >>> Leonardo/Olats : http://www.olats.org
>>> > >>> Web : http://www.annickbureaud.net
>>> > >>> Collectif Nunc : http://www.nunc.com
>>> > >>> -------------------------
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ===
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Dr. Sarah Cook
>>> > >>> Reader / Dundee Fellow
>>> > >>> Duncan of Jordanstone College of Art and Design
>>> > >>> University of Dundee
>>> > >>> 13 Perth Road DD1 4HT
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> phone: 01382 385247
>>> > >>> email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The University of Dundee is a registered Scottish Charity, No:
>>> SC015096
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>
>>> > > --
>>> > >
>>> > > ------------------------
>>> > > Annick Bureaud ([log in to unmask])
>>> > > tel: 33/(0)1 43 20 92 23
>>> > > mobile/cell : 33/(0)6 86 77 65 76
>>> > > Leonardo/Olats : http://www.olats.org
>>> > > Web : http://www.annickbureaud.net
>>> > > Collectif Nunc : http://www.nunc.com
>>> > > -------------------------
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Roger F Malina
>>> Is in Texas right now
>>> please contact me by email but
>>> for very very urgent things phone/text me me
>>> 1-510-853-2007
>>> blog: malina.diatrope.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Roger F Malina
> Is in Texas right now
> please contact me by email but
> for very very urgent things phone/text me me
> 1-510-853-2007
> blog: malina.diatrope.com
>
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